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blondgecko
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May 11, 2005, 9:13 AM
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According to a recent study, regions of the brain associated with sexual arousal are stimulated by a male sweat-derived pheremone in women and in gay men, but not in heterosexual men.
On the other hand, an estrogen-derived molecule found in female urine excited the same region in heterosexual men.
Born that way or learned? The question still remains, but I'm going with the former.
Full details here.
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republiclimber
May 11, 2005, 9:35 AM
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heh, i thought this was going to be a pinktricam post. personally i think it's learned....
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tradman
May 11, 2005, 10:14 AM
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Interesting.
So, what we have here is cutting edge research which shows conclusively that gay men and straight women are attracted to men?
Wow. That really is ground-breaking.
:lol:
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blondgecko
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May 11, 2005, 10:55 AM
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In reply to: Interesting. So, what we have here is cutting edge research which shows conclusively that gay men and straight women are attracted to men? Wow. That really is ground-breaking. :lol:
And, more importantly, that gay men show absolutely no physiochemical response in these areas to female pheremones.
That, I think, is very interesting.
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tradman
May 11, 2005, 11:07 AM
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In reply to: And, more importantly, that gay men show absolutely no physiochemical response in these areas to female pheremones. That, I think, is very interesting.
Well in that case I'd urge you to read the excellent 2001 work by Ivanka Savic and colleagues which proved that, amazingly, heterosexual men and women showed no response to pheromones from their own gender.
It's a rivetting read if you're interested in extremely long-winded ways of stating the blindingly obvious.
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thorne
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May 11, 2005, 11:36 AM
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In reply to: The research demonstrates a likely link between brain function and sexual orientation, Savic suggests. But she told New Scientist that the study “does not answer the cause-and-effect question”. So the brain-activation of gay men by AND may contribute to sexual orientation of those men, or simply be the result of their orientation and sexual behaviour. |
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climbingbetty22
May 11, 2005, 11:40 AM
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Wow-- so heterosexual men are attracted to women's urine?? Shoot, that would have totally changed my approach had I known that!! :lol:
On a more serious note. I don't think that study proves whether or not homosexuality is learned or innate. All it proves is what we already know- homosexual men are attracted to other men. No rocket science there.
Yes, its seems to be a solid arguement that homosexuality is how a person is born, not a choice. However, biology is never as cut and dry as it would seem. Its kind of like physics- there's the simplified Newtonian way to look at it, and then there's the nebulous quantum mechanics way of looking at things.
A while back, a researcher, Candice Pert, found that cells actually have several potential states. The receptors on the outside that allow it to communicate with the rest of the body actually oscilate between several conformations. They get 'locked' into a certain conformation when a specific molecule binds. One molecule, one conformation, another molecule, a different conformation.
I know, I know, blah, blah, blah, who cares? But I just bring that up because the implication is that our emotions can create physical changes in our bodies. She actually isolated molecules of emotions and studied their effects on the cell. So, one way of looking at things is that we are potential, are possiblity realities. Our physical body accomodates, that is, it gets locked into, the reality our minds create for it.
So is homosexuality a learned behaviour or something someone is born with? We'll probably never have a straight answer on that one.
Now, if I could only convince my body to accept my mind's reality that I can climb 5.13! :lol:
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thorne
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May 11, 2005, 11:49 AM
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In reply to: So is homosexuality a learned behaviour or something someone is born with? We'll probably never have a straight answer on that one.
LOL :lol:
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organic
May 11, 2005, 12:21 PM
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It is as fine and dandy besides the fact the pheromones have never been actually proven to be related to attractiveness... at least I read that disclaimer in another article. Funny how they say things like that then go on a 2 page rant on how pheromones effect gay men?
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taualum23
May 11, 2005, 12:53 PM
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New study finds that rocks are heavy!
Anybody else (besides tradman, who clearly sees this the way I do) see that this is a peice of scientific "info" that is, really, pretty meaningless?
Gay men are attracted to men, as are women. Straight men are attracted to women. I'm not sure, but I think the empirical evidence has already pointed us in this direction.
The which came first, the gayness or the pheremone-response question is, of course, stil quite open. While I do thinkthat this peice of info does tend to point to a "born" answer, it is by no means conclusive. If I started having sex with men a few tiems a day, how long would it take for male pheremones to start turning me on?
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tgreene
May 11, 2005, 1:03 PM
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I used to have a couple very close gay friends that told me that no matter how many times they had tried to "straighten out", they simply were unable to do so. One friend in particular, told me that when he was actually with a woman, he became physically ill, due to the "unnatural" feelings that he had...
As twisted as this may sound, why in the hell would ANYONE choose to be persecuted all of their lives, for what others deem to be a choice..? It's neither a choice nor a lifestyle, it's who they are and how they were born!
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robbovius
May 11, 2005, 2:06 PM
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In reply to: Wow-- so heterosexual men are attracted to women's urine?? Shoot, that would have totally changed my approach had I known that!! :lol: :
really explains alot about the boatloads of piss-fetish sites on the internet too.
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kriso9tails
May 11, 2005, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: As twisted as this may sound, why in the hell would ANYONE choose to be persecuted all of their lives, for what others deem to be a choice..? It's neither a choice nor a lifestyle, it's who they are and how they were born!
I'd have to agree that it isn't a choice. I have a hard time believing that someone would commit suicide over something they could simply choose not to do.
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dingus
May 11, 2005, 5:45 PM
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It would be interesting to study bisexual folks to see if their biological reactions are positive to both pheronome groups. I bet they are. It does go a long way to explain my attraction to the female armpit though (oh lawdy lawdy!)
The researchers were quoted as saying these results in no way point to cause, only effect.
I used to hate french roast coffee. I said it tasted like dirt. A bro said it was an acquired taste. Now I like it. Lots of things in life are like that. Some people like certain things right out of the gate, others grow to like them. Obviously the body reacts biologically to these things, DUH!!! The brain becomes used to drugs and comes to require them, etc.
I would be curious to see if a taste for pheronomes can be acquired too. Pardon me if I deline to volunteer to have my armpits licked by guys though... and I doubt I could be coerced into doing the licking either.
I might be like George Costanza... what if I liked it???
This is more of a mechanism study, not a design or origins study.
DMT
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shortfatoldguy
May 11, 2005, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: As twisted as this may sound, why in the hell would ANYONE choose to be persecuted all of their lives, for what others deem to be a choice..? It's neither a choice nor a lifestyle, it's who they are and how they were born!
Yeah, man! Another gun-toting liberal! :lol: (See, *any* thread can be turned into a gun thread! Look, I'm doing it right now...)
Seriously, I had the same response as many of you wrt the study's implications (or rather lack thereof) for settling any big questions.
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taualum23
May 11, 2005, 7:18 PM
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Woo-hoo! Let's hear it for gun-toting liberals!! Except I have a feeling Tim won't exaclty love being called a liberal.
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shortfatoldguy
May 11, 2005, 8:13 PM
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^^ Perhaps not, but if the Glock fits...
In PDX, we have an organization called the Pink Pistols, a GLBT(etc.) group of gun owners. I think their motto is something like, "You're gonna queer bash who?"
:D
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shortfatoldguy
May 11, 2005, 8:16 PM
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Back on topic, sort of...
Did anyone catch the episode of "This American Life" that was about testosterone? The staff and contributors to the program all got their levels checked, after betting on whose was highest of the men and women. Really interesting and entertaining. The most "fem" of the gay men involved turned out to have the highest levels of testosterone.
What this means, if anything, I have *no* idea.
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tgreene
May 11, 2005, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: In PDX, we have an organization called the Pink Pistols, a GLBT(etc.) group of gun owners. I think their motto is something like, "You're gonna queer bash who?"
I'm a huge fan of Pink Pistols, and when I operated Gun-Talk.com (the board that I programed and started before it and the gun store were stolen away by my worthless piece of shit business partner), I caught some serious attitude from a ton of the members by publicly inviting the PP's to join the discussion forums and become active members.
Also, I'm neither liberal nor conservative in the terms that would define any specific "place", because I'm very passionate about issues on the far spectrums of both aisles. ;)
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shortfatoldguy
May 11, 2005, 8:35 PM
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That's awesome. I applaud you loudly and long.
The PP is a national group, then?
Dig it, they probably get turned on by the smell of Hoppes #9! Both sexes!
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tgreene
May 11, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: Back on topic, sort of... Did anyone catch the episode of "This American Life" that was about testosterone? The staff and contributors to the program all got their levels checked, after betting on whose was highest of the men and women. Really interesting and entertaining. The most "fem" of the gay men involved turned out to have the highest levels of testosterone. What this means, if anything, I have *no* idea.
Just as there are changes or deficiencies within individuals with Downs Syndrome, the same holds true for homosexuality, since it IS the X/Y ratio that defines our gender.
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