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lightboi
Jul 10, 2002, 1:53 AM
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When I set up a belay or toprope anchor I tend to put 2 nuts into each crack. If the crack is running verticle I equalize them with 6mm cord with clove hitches and a doubled fig 8 one the ends. Most anchors that I see are equalized using a runner in a sliding-X. Is there something better with the X? I would think that the X would load the lower nut more and if one nut should fail, then chances that shock loading and the subsequent failure of the anchor system. The X does seem faster to set up but I guess that I am not into rushing when I rig an anchor. hmmmmmm
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jt512
Jul 10, 2002, 2:04 AM
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The sliding X should not be used in the situation you've described because of the possibility of shock loading. Read here what the American Safe Climbing Association has to say about the sliding X (you'll have to scroll down to the bottom of the page: Click here. -Jay
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punk
Jul 10, 2002, 7:19 PM
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In regard of using the sliding X there is time and place for everything and there are some systems that will combine some benefits from each….however they are a little more advance to rig and take more time to get familiar with. With the link that I am about to supply …DON’T TEST THIS ON YOURSELF get familiar with it first in safe environment belay anchor Hope it helped Climb safe [ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-07-10 12:21 ]
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elvislegs
Jul 10, 2002, 7:28 PM
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John Long's Advanced Rock Climbing has some info on this, including load calculations etc. Check it out, mostly up to date.
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mikedano
Jul 10, 2002, 7:30 PM
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Can someone define a "sliding x?" Thanks.
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transse
Jul 10, 2002, 7:31 PM
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A really good resource for discussion of these topics is John Longs, Advanced Rock Climbing. The slider knot can be rigged with a overhand knot to limit shockloading if an anchor does fail. Before trying this setup, please read a description for yourself and understand the concept. Jake
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paulc
Jul 10, 2002, 8:08 PM
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sliding X - if you have two pieces of gear (whatever they may be) and you put a biner thru each, clip the same sling to both biners and then pull the webbing down to that you get a double V. then you take one side of the V and you give it a half twist and put a biner thru your new bottom point going thru both the original V and the twisted V then you have a sliding X. The twist shows up as an X just above the bottom biner. 0 0 \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ \ / / \ X / \ / V or some thing like that (the diagram I mean) Paul PS use lockers and don't forget the twist as if you do forget it then if one piece pops then you don't have an anchor you have a corpse and a piece of webbing hanging from one of your pieces. edit - sorry about the ascii art, RC buggered it up. [ This Message was edited by: paulc on 2002-07-10 14:04 ]
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lightboi
Jul 10, 2002, 8:47 PM
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It makes even less sense to tie an overhand knot into a sewn runner being that you are going to lose 25-30% of the strentgh of the runner. If i am picturing this correctly then the knot is coming off of 1 leg of the X, so if the other nut fails then the runner will still extend fully. The overhand knot does nothing but weaken your runner. Is there a nother self eaqualizing system that does not pose shock loading risks? edit....yea that linked post looks like it would work, just looks like it has the distinct possibility of clusterflyin real quick. [ This Message was edited by: lightboi on 2002-07-10 13:50 ]
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climblouisiana
Jul 10, 2002, 9:19 PM
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Avoid using the sliding x for a belay anchor. if it fails it will shock load the other piece and probably cause it to fail. Try to use two independent pieces of webbing and equalize them by tying one piece longer or shorter. It will take more time but it gives a better piece of mind.
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mountainmonkey
Jul 11, 2002, 7:47 PM
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I would be very concerned about using the system as suggested in the first post. You do not want to put clove hitches into a 6mm piece of cord because you loose about 1/2 the strength and most 6mm cords are only rated to about 2250lbs. I think the system you want to be using is the equalized cord where you have a loop of cord clipped to at least 2 pieces and then a large figure 8 or overhand tied to equalize all the pieces (this is a horrible description so read a book on it, CLIMBING ANCHORS and MORE CLIMBING ANCHORS is the best). I prefer to always use at least 7mm or 8mm for anchors. The mountain tools webbollet (?) also works great.
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timpanogos
Jul 13, 2002, 4:56 PM
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lightboi - the overhand knot tied on one side of a sliding x leg would be tied very close to the common connecting biners (where the climber rope is connected), thus if the placement blew on the leg with the knot - the knot would catch on the common connecting biners and the shock would be minimized to the distance from the knot to the biner and the swinging of the other sling to vertical.
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