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codhands
Jun 20, 2005, 9:49 PM
Post #26 of 35
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Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 499
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My dos centavos,
TR soloing, the stuff I've done is all within the 50' to 65' rang and not much but it seems to work.
I use a grigri with locking biner to rappell loop on harness, I also clip a biner to my gear loop towards back and clip brake hand side of rope through it just to keep rope in brake aspect. I tie double cordellete through waist and leg loops like tying in the end of a rope and put locking biner on that for clipping into other side of rope as I come to my butterflies.
I tie a bowline on a bight in the center or near center of rope for anchor clipping. I suppose an eight on the bight would work okay too, I just like the redundancy that the bowline gives with the two loops it creates. I (as previous poster suggests) tie alpine butterflies periodically on one leg of the rope and clovehitch other leg to whatever I find handy at the bottom of route for tension.
I clip into butterflies as I come to them, that way if I take a fall and miraculously the leg of rope that grigri is on somehow parts, or grigri fails, or biner fails, or rappel loop fails, or I pass out, i still have the back up of the other leg clipped into the butterflies.
Another guy I know simply climbs with atc and rope running through sling on back of harness to keep it in brake aspect.
If anyone sees a problem with my setup as explained please let me know, it seems about as redundant and safe as possible but I am always open to suggestions. :D
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xtrmecat
Jun 20, 2005, 11:43 PM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548
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Wow, what a lot of tempers. I solo climb almost exclusively by choice and also back up all of my devices and methods with a knot. I have climbed on my soloist for two years now and taken a couple big falls. I still trust all the systems as much as any belayer and have as much or more confidence when leading on these also.
I got this way from starting out TRing and trying different things always using two separate systems and found top roping was a great way to get familiar with self belay. I start all climbs without any weight on the rope and have to tend it closely until there is enough below me to help the auto feeding. Any stance good enough to clip or place from is usually sufficient to tie another clove in the biner at my waist. I only need to tie in short in awkward places to prevent grounding on a ledge.
Find a system you like and have an experienced climber critique it for you before you up to your max or get in over your head. I hope you find it as rewarding a way to climb as I have. Kind of ups the anty on a lead and has taught me a lot about how important having a cool head is.
Bob
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rocloco
Jun 21, 2005, 2:13 AM
Post #28 of 35
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Registered: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 152
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Sentinel,
If I stopped climbing every time I was afraid I wouldn't have gotten past 5.8 on TR. Great advice buddy. Next time you feel a bright idea coming on go sit on a toilet.
FYI, nothing personal...
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steezy
Jun 21, 2005, 3:35 AM
Post #29 of 35
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Registered: May 30, 2005
Posts: 92
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holy crappa.
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mcfoley
Jun 21, 2005, 3:57 AM
Post #30 of 35
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Registered: May 15, 2002
Posts: 644
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YOU REALLY MUST LIKE CLIMBING THE SAME ROUTE OVER AND OVER AGAIN? My suggestion is to brush up on your social skills and get a partner. Plus it's a pain in the ass rigging that shit.
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janjaf
Jun 21, 2005, 8:34 AM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: Dec 12, 2001
Posts: 76
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Sentinel wrote:
In reply to: Here's the deal friend. yadda yadda yah He's tough as nails and so on has tons of experience This guy sound's like he is not sure not confident on SOLOing on a TR. More importantly it sounds like he has not pushed gear to a limit that he feels SAFE. The movement of any TR ascending device over the rope is so incremental and if he has it attached correctly it should never ever come off (Once again tell us your stories about how a self enclosed device can all of a sudden come off a line).
a. Lead soloing: the grigri does come of, if you fall upside down. Petzl warns about this, and disencourages its use for soloing. Jumars and ascenders are teasted to 600 Kn as per the UIAA certification. This is obviously insufficient for lead soloing. Most jumars will lkely hold a lot more, but 1 - you can't know in advance and 2- the teeth will likely damage your rope.
b. TR solo. The rope will of course absorb much, but the concerns about turning upside down are still valid for the grigri. The jumar as you say, should slide incrementally if attached correctly . But what if it's not? And don't yammer about lkearning your gear and testing it. Jeff Lowe once decked, because he and his partner misunderstood each other. These simple, basic error happen all the time, and acknowledging that would probably keep Mr SAR-dude grounded a whole lot more than screaming at people will ;)
I've no experience with the soloist nor the silent partner, so I have no opinion about those.
But, All in all, it seems to me there's good reason to be concerned, and tie a backup knot.
In reply to: yadda yadda oh, he's seen a jumar come off once, not that it changed his opinion that in my experience his question seems to play in the world of fear and uncertainty. When you deal with those elements on route, its time to give up the lead, back off or just not do it. Cause if not I have to don my BIO gear to clean up whats left of him.
Oh come on. Are you seriously saying that if you are afraid on-route, you should back off? I find, as does Alex Huber, Mark Twight, Messner and so on, that it can be motivating to overcome your fears, and that your fear may heighten your awareness of errors. Of course if you're scared silly and crying 'till your rope drycover wears out, you should probably back off. But being scared is a rational reaction to objective danger. Being a good climber surely involves assessing risk and making a mature choice?
I'm scared shitless once i two inches above ANY trad gear. :shock: But i know that this is not a rational reaction, but merely a reminder that i should trad climb more than i do. If i got scared 60 feet above a ledge and a tipped-out black alien, the fear tells me something else entirely. But how i act upon my fear is the important thing.
One more quote, from your first post:
In reply to: What your experiencing is fear of gear failure and then eventually death. What are you doing rope soloing if that fear of death is your belay partner.
I just have to ask: do you really think that neither death nor gear failure should scare me? Soloist shouldn't be afraid of dying?
Sure sounds like macho bravado from the couch to me... as opposed to, say, sensible advice from an experienced climber.
edit: quoting mess
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sentinel
Jun 21, 2005, 6:28 PM
Post #32 of 35
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Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 68
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WOW. You sure do know alot of climber people. Jesus christ can you drop any more names. Maybe someday I can drop your name. You read a lot of books too. Sure seem pretty smart.
In reply to: I've no experience
Isn't that a no shitter.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Jun 21, 2005, 7:54 PM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 267
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You are not the first French Canadian to make an a** of yourself on rc.com
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jefffski
Jun 22, 2005, 1:43 AM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 286
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sentinel,
you seem to be very upset. did i insult you? if i did please forgive me. i had no idea that you would read my post. i should have thought that asking for input might piss you off. i would like to learn about your techniques so i can copy them blindly. do have a book out? i must have missed it at REI.
but on the other hand....
i asked a simple question and got some good info. isn't this the point of this forum? do i have to provide a climbing resume to satisfy your need that i am or am not a newbie? is your opinion the only valid one?
one of the things i like about rock climbing is the diversity of opinion. sharing is good. we all learn when we are open to new or different ideas. your attitude suggests that you are a danger to yourself and others because you believe that you are infallible.
if you have an opinion that is free of judgement, rhetoric and especially anger i would like to hear it.
please take your anger elsewhere.
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janjaf
Jun 22, 2005, 9:34 AM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: Dec 12, 2001
Posts: 76
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Well said, jefffski.
I'll skip my reply to sentinel and just leave it at that, since it would seem that sentinel is beyond rational arguments.
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