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bobd1953
Jun 29, 2005, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: I guess I just hang on like MoFo until the belayer finally hears me. I find that "Take, Goddammit, What the Fuck Are You Doing Down There!" usually does the trick. -Jay
Jay, next time make it easy on yourself and clip in with the rope or a quickdraw and then ask..." What the Fuck Are You Doing Down There!"
:o
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tradklime
Jun 29, 2005, 10:50 PM
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Wow this thread really highlights how easily communication problems arise. Thank god we don't use the internet to communicate WHILE climbing. We'd all be dead.
As Jay pointed out earlier, there is rarely a need to take someone off belay while single pitch sport climbing. Anytime you find yourself taking someone off belay, and they are not on the ground, you should definitely double check things.
One thing I do, if my partner asks to be taken off belay and I don't have line of sight or absolutely clear double checked verified verbal communication, I will put them in a hip belay when i take them off of my belay device. A quick and easy precaution.
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bobd1953
Jun 29, 2005, 10:56 PM
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Chad, just tried to call you. Drop me a line. Later, Bob
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jt512
Jun 29, 2005, 10:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If on a sport climb where there are no cold shuts, but only chains/rings through which to thread the rope, the last person up (whether leading or on top rope) must take a daisy chain or sling in order to clip in to the anchor, untie from the rope, thread the rope back through the chains, retie into the rope, etc. Perhaps you thread the rope through chains another way? Of course that's the way I do it in that situation, but that wasn't the situation presented in this thread. The belayer planned to TR the route. -Jay Jay, that isn't clear either. The belayer actually posted: In reply to: ...It was a communication problem. I know there are more than one pitch climbs there. It was in my mind that she was going to belay me up there. I should have made sure I was clear about what we were climbing and what Tracy was going to do once she got to the top. Curt
Good point, but that misunderstanding must have taken place before Tracy left the ground because she wote, "In this situation, I lead [sic] the route and he was going to TR the route." So, I still maintain that her actions at the anchors were appropriate, and that the problem was elsewhere. As I see it, the proximate cause was that the belayer failed to confirm what he thought was an "off belay" command. Contributing causes likely included an inexperienced and probably inattentive belayer, possibly poor communication between belayers on the ground, misrepresentation of the belayer's experience level, an inexperienced leader, failure of the leader to accurately assess the belayer's competence in general and for the specific type of climb, and a habit of knowingly climbing with guys who are "putzes" and then failing to take responsibility for the consequences.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2005, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: ..and a habit of knowingly climbing with guys who are "putzes" and then failing to take responsibility for the consequences.
Shit. I'm guilty of this, although I'm trying to break that habit. A good belay can be hard to come by! :lol:
Gotta stop trolling the gym, desperate for a partner... 8^)
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jt512
Jun 29, 2005, 11:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ..and a habit of knowingly climbing with guys who are "putzes" and then failing to take responsibility for the consequences. I'm guilty of this...
That's no way to talk about... oh never mind.
In reply to: Gotta stop trolling...
Never!
-Jay
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2005, 11:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ..and a habit of knowingly climbing with guys who are "putzes" and then failing to take responsibility for the consequences. I'm guilty of this... That's no way to talk about... oh never mind. -Jay
:lol:
Shoulda seen that one coming. Actually, that's one of a few belays that I have absolute confidence in. Something to do with catching me a few hundered times.
I'm concerned about the climbers, where if you try to get them to belay with a grigri, take it as an offense, like you don't trust them or something... :roll:
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jt512
Jun 29, 2005, 11:28 PM
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In reply to: I'm concerned about the climbers, where if you try to get them to belay with a grigri, take it as an offense, like you don't trust them or something... :roll:
Frankly, if they're not already belaying with a grigri for sport climbing, I don't trust them. If their draws all match, I don't trust them. If they're wearing Spires, forget it. If they tie in at the base, adios. More than one belay device on their harness, Bzzzt, thanks for playing. Quicklinks on their harness? No comment. New red anodized grigri? Full gumby alert.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2005, 11:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm concerned about the climbers, where if you try to get them to belay with a grigri, take it as an offense, like you don't trust them or something... :roll: Frankly, if they're not already belaying with a grigri for sport climbing, I don't trust them. If their draws all match, I don't trust them. If they're wearing Spires, forget it. If they tie in at the base, adios. More than one belay device on their harness, Bzzzt, thanks for playing. Quicklinks on their harness? No comment. New red anodized grigri? Full gumby alert. -Jay
Can a moderator make this a sticky? I think there's a lot of valuable information in one concise post. :P
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curt
Jun 29, 2005, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: Frankly, if they're not already belaying with a grigri for sport climbing, I don't trust them. If their draws all match, I don't trust them. If they're wearing Spires, forget it. If they tie in at the base, adios. More than one belay device on their harness, Bzzzt, thanks for playing. Quicklinks on their harness? No comment. New red anodized grigri? Full gumby alert. -Jay
Well, what if "someone" has matching quickdraws that also match their mid-80's lycra?
Curt
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caughtinside
Jun 29, 2005, 11:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Frankly, if they're not already belaying with a grigri for sport climbing, I don't trust them. If their draws all match, I don't trust them. If they're wearing Spires, forget it. If they tie in at the base, adios. More than one belay device on their harness, Bzzzt, thanks for playing. Quicklinks on their harness? No comment. New red anodized grigri? Full gumby alert. -Jay Well, what if "someone" has matching quickdraws that also match their mid-80's lycra? Curt
Well, chances are by now this "someone" has probably given up climbing. They might still boulder though. :P
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artm
Jun 30, 2005, 12:08 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Frankly, if they're not already belaying with a grigri for sport climbing, I don't trust them. If their draws all match, I don't trust them. If they're wearing Spires, forget it. If they tie in at the base, adios. More than one belay device on their harness, Bzzzt, thanks for playing. Quicklinks on their harness? No comment. New red anodized grigri? Full gumby alert. -Jay Well, what if "someone" has matching quickdraws that also match their mid-80's lycra? Curt
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=29286
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march
Jun 30, 2005, 12:15 AM
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In reply to: Well, what if "someone" has matching quickdraws that also match their mid-80's lycra? Curt
So that's why no one will climb with me... Damn! I'm gonna have to get some different lycra cause I can't afford new draws. :oops:
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yanqui
Jun 30, 2005, 12:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: HOWEVER, here's what I do at the top when I'm climbing with, for example, my friend Martin, who's somewhat of a novice and a downright space cadet when it comes to belaying. Has it ever occurred to you not to climb with people who are downright space cadets when it comes to belaying? -Jay
In this case, I'm completely aware of my friend's limitations and am totally capable of guiding him and giving him the direction he needs to give me a safe belay on short sport routes. This is a long way from blindly trusting a little known partner whose capabilities are an unknown wild card. One of the essential components about climbing safely is knowing both your own, and your partner's limitations. Hadn't this occurred to you?
In fact, now that it occurs to me, I'm sure I would rather climb with my space cadet friend, knowing his limitations, than some know-it-all asshole who's seems a little too convinced he has everything under control.
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pt
Jun 30, 2005, 1:49 AM
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In reply to: If they tie in at the base, adios. -Jay
Don't we all tie in at the base of the route? :?:
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jt512
Jun 30, 2005, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: HOWEVER, here's what I do at the top when I'm climbing with, for example, my friend Martin, who's somewhat of a novice and a downright space cadet when it comes to belaying. Has it ever occurred to you not to climb with people who are downright space cadets when it comes to belaying? -Jay I'm sure I would rather climb with my space cadet friend, knowing his limitations, than some know-it-all asshole who's seems a little too convinced he has everything under control.
But then...
In reply to: I'm completely aware of my friend's limitations and am totally capable of guiding him and giving him the direction he needs to give me a safe belay on short sport routes....
I guess my concern was misplaced. It sounds like you are convinced you have everything under control. ;)
-Jay
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curt
Jun 30, 2005, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: HOWEVER, here's what I do at the top when I'm climbing with, for example, my friend Martin, who's somewhat of a novice and a downright space cadet when it comes to belaying. Has it ever occurred to you not to climb with people who are downright space cadets when it comes to belaying? -Jay I'm sure I would rather climb with my space cadet friend, knowing his limitations, than some know-it-all asshole who's seems a little too convinced he has everything under control. But then... In reply to: I'm completely aware of my friend's limitations and am totally capable of guiding him and giving him the direction he needs to give me a safe belay on short sport routes.... I guess my concern was misplaced. It sounds like you are convinced you have everything under control. ;) -Jay
Yet another example of the internet distorting reality. I've known Tim since the mid 1980s and he is a nerd, just like you (PhD in mathematics) and if you two met IRL, you two would get along just fine.
Curt
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bobd1953
Jun 30, 2005, 3:31 AM
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Where is all the love in this tread?
Nothing worst than nerds attacking other nerds!
Something is not right in cyber-space.
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curt
Jun 30, 2005, 3:33 AM
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In reply to: Where is all the love in this tread? Nothing worst than nerds attacking other nerds! Something is not right in cyber-space.
But, I love you Bob. :lol:
Curt
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jt512
Jun 30, 2005, 3:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: HOWEVER, here's what I do at the top when I'm climbing with, for example, my friend Martin, who's somewhat of a novice and a downright space cadet when it comes to belaying. Has it ever occurred to you not to climb with people who are downright space cadets when it comes to belaying? -Jay I'm sure I would rather climb with my space cadet friend, knowing his limitations, than some know-it-all asshole who's seems a little too convinced he has everything under control. But then... In reply to: I'm completely aware of my friend's limitations and am totally capable of guiding him and giving him the direction he needs to give me a safe belay on short sport routes.... I guess my concern was misplaced. It sounds like you are convinced you have everything under control. ;) -Jay Yet another example of the internet distorting reality. I've known Tim since the mid 1980s and he is a nerd, just like you (PhD in mathematics) and if you two met IRL, you two would get along just fine. Curt
If you have the requisite skill, you can climb safely with complete gumbies; guides do it all the time, after all. I doubt that Tracy is at that level, though, yet there are hints in this thread that she puts herself repeatedly, if not chronically, in such a position. Since that practice might be part of the root cause of her repeated close calls, this might not be the thread to suggest that climbing with airhead belayers is ok, at least not without an explanation that the poster has been climbing regularly for two decades.
-Jay
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bobd1953
Jun 30, 2005, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: bobd1953 wrote: Where is all the love in this tread? Nothing worst than nerds attacking other nerds! Something is not right in cyber-space. But, I love you Bob. Curt We will see after our bouldering session on Sunday. :D
Any other takers on bouldering with Curt and Bob Sunday?? |
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curt
Jun 30, 2005, 4:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Where is all the love in this tread? Nothing worst than nerds attacking other nerds! Something is not right in cyber-space. But, I love you Bob. Curt
Any other takers on bouldering with Curt and Bob Sunday??
I fixed your quotes. Also, I'm pretty sure that Tracy would probably like to boulder with us on Sunday. :lol:
Curt
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bobd1953
Jun 30, 2005, 4:17 AM
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In reply to: Also, I'm pretty sure that Tracy would now like to boulder with us on Sunday.
And she is more than welcome to come along.
She can also rest assure that there will be no problems with belaying.
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zozo
Jun 30, 2005, 5:00 AM
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Please don't.
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