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mmiller
Jul 26, 2005, 5:18 AM
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I have searched this site and the Internet and can not find a descriptive enough article about setting up a top rope anchor using trees. I purchased the freedom of the hills book to get some idea about the knots used, but the book does not really talk specifically about top rope anchors for climbing. my friends and I have been bouldering at Great Falls and Carder Rock for a while as well as gym climbing and are ready to start are own top roping. My plan was to learn how to set up the anchor through reading and the Internet, then go out to one of the sites on a weekend (because both areas will be so busy), set up the anchor then ask an experienced climber there to give the anchor an inspection. The anchors I have seen people tie tend to look very complex. From what I have put together it seems like the simplest anchor would be to trees, (these are usually what is available in the area) tie a piece of webbing around each one with a water knot, then clip a locking biner to each one. then use a piece of chord tied in a loop with a double fisherman's knot to clip into each biner, pull the chord so it is equalized, (this part I got out of freedom of the hills) then tie an overhand knot it the chord and attach to opposed locking biners. pad the edge of the rock to prevent any rubbing. Please respond if this is grossly wrong, or if anyone has a much simpler method. I was wondering why you cant just wrap the chord around the trees like you would the biners and skip out on the webbing, my guess was because of friction, but please anyone with any kind of advice or a good website to visit or possibly a book to look at let me know. I am pretty cautious, so don't worry I'm not setting this thing up to climb until someone who clearly knows what they are doing has looked at it and said it is absolutely bomb proof. Thank you.
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curt
Jul 26, 2005, 5:29 AM
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Don't go climbing without adult supervision; you're going to die.
Curt
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climbinginchico
Jul 26, 2005, 5:46 AM
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In reply to: Don't go climbing without adult supervision; you're going to die. Curt
Pretty much.
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blueeyedclimber
Jul 26, 2005, 2:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Don't go climbing without adult supervision; you're going to die. Curt Pretty much.
Maybe, maybe not. My question is, How would you know an experienced climber from an inexpereienced one?
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j_ung
Jul 26, 2005, 2:54 PM
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Your plan has flaws. :wink:
Both Earth Treks and Sportrock offer classes for TR anchor building.
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chadnsc
Jul 26, 2005, 3:02 PM
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I would recommend going to one of the busy local crags with someone you know is experienced and learning from them. I say this because what you described for an anchor isn’t technically incorrect there are many ways an inexperienced climber could botch the setup. In short don’t climb using the anchor you described without supervision. Not to mention there are less complicated ways to create a top rope anchor using trees.
Good luck and have fun.
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fear
Jul 26, 2005, 3:04 PM
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It ain't rocket science.
Buy this and read it:
http://www.climbinggear.com/products/listing/item4005.asp?referralsource=Froogle_CG
-Fear
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climberpunk
Jul 26, 2005, 3:27 PM
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Hey so I climb at carderock constantly, so if you want i'd be more than willing to climb with you guys and give a little rigging lesson. Just shoot me a PM and we can figure something out.
And for carderock/great falls, i'd reccomend a 50' static line, you can rig most of the climbs there with that length.
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jammer
Jul 26, 2005, 3:32 PM
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Fear ... nice call!
climberpunk ... nice to see the brotherhood in action!
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northerndrawl
Jul 26, 2005, 3:40 PM
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[
And for carderock/great falls, i'd reccomend a 50' static line, you can rig most of the climbs there with that length.
Why static?
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landgolier
Jul 26, 2005, 3:55 PM
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The Potomac AT Club Mountaineering Section (which is just a bunch of really nice guys who happen to have a pretentious/silly sounding group name) top rope at carderock every wednesday night. On average we set up about 10 ropes, and if you got there at like 4 or 4:30, anyone there would be happy to show you what they're doing with their anchors. If you can't get there that early, come later and you can probably learn almost as much from watching them get taken apart. This week we might go to great falls on thursday as well, depends on the weather. There are also groups going out just about every weekend, and anyone is welcome to come along, climb, and learn. PM me or just google the PATC web site and find the mountaineering section and you can check out the trip calendar and get on the email list and whatnot.
Toprope anchors aren't hard, the topic just gets discussed a lot because there are so many ways to do it wrong and really only one way to do it right with about 3 small variations. Describing it in print is pointless and confusing, just come out and people will be happy to show you.
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jammer
Jul 26, 2005, 4:08 PM
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In reply to: [ And for carderock/great falls, i'd reccomend a 50' static line, you can rig most of the climbs there with that length.
Why static?
I'm pretty sure the static line is for the anchor. I use 2 30 meter static lines for my anchors. Good question though ...
hj
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mmiller
Jul 26, 2005, 5:25 PM
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Thank you all for the replies, The reason I was trying to avoid the classes is because I would like to avoid paying a hundred dollars if someone can teach me for free. I'll definitely try to make to one of the PATC climbs, probably not this week but maybe later.
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dimsung1
Jul 26, 2005, 6:09 PM
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we usually just us chains....wrap 2 chains around the biggest tree you can find, run the rope through all 4 of the end links.....its heavy and ugly but it works
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plund
Jul 26, 2005, 6:34 PM
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In reply to: Thank you all for the replies, The reason I was trying to avoid the classes is because I would like to avoid paying a hundred dollars if someone can teach me for free. I'll definitely try to make to one of the PATC climbs, probably not this week but maybe later.
What kind of value do you place on your / your friends'
life / lives???
Take the class, then go hang with the Wednesday group & take advantage of their very generous offer.
Maybe you could get your friends to split the class fee with you, then take lots of notes & share your new knowledge! Good luck...
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landgolier
Jul 26, 2005, 7:00 PM
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Ahem...
I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but seriously, there is no need for the OP or anyone else to pay for a toprope anchor class. If you absolutely can't find somebody to teach you or your time schedule is very limited and your $$ isn't, it's one thing. But otherwise, I want to see the climbing resume of anybody who honestly thinks someone should pay $200 to learn such arcane secrets as friction wraps, the water knot, opposite and opposed biners, abrasion protection, clifftop safety, and smart power point placement. I know the particular company this guy would be going to, and while they're totally safe and competent, the OP would be paying big money to go to the exact same crag and learn the exact same skills from much less experienced instructors, in a class that would be half full of soccer dads with no interest in climbing who are only taking the class because their kids climb at a gym and want to start going outdoors.
Oh, and to the OP, PATC will be at great falls on thursday this week as well, if you can make that let me know and I'll hook you up with contact info for the guy that is going early to set up a bunch of ropes. Otherwise, come by next week or next weekend!
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aikibujin
Jul 26, 2005, 7:09 PM
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In reply to: What kind of value do you place on your / your friends' life / lives??? Take the class, then go hang with the Wednesday group & take advantage of their very generous offer.
While I do agree that a climber should learn how to set up an anchor properly before going out and do it themselves, it is a toprope anchor, not quantum physics. You're not guaranteed death and dismemberment just because you learned to set up an anchor from another climber instead of from a class. The PATC MS has some very experienced and knowledgeable climbers, I think it's perfectly safe if the OP go out and learn from them.
In reply to: Maybe you could get your friends to split the class fee with you, then take lots of notes & share your new knowledge! Good luck...
How is learning from a friend who's freshly graduated from an anchoring class, different (better?) than from learning from someone who is experienced and knowledgeable?
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bill413
Jul 26, 2005, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: ... My question is, How would you know an experienced climber from an inexpereienced one?
One way (not infallable) to judge: if someone cannot explain the pros and cons of an anchor they set up....they aren't going to be able to teach you much. They should not only be able to explain why they have done something, but also see several alternative ways to set up any given anchor.
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reg
Jul 26, 2005, 7:55 PM
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i agree with curt. go get instruction - gym's, guides, mentors. do not climb before you have the basics down solid - and this question is the basics!
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j_ung
Jul 26, 2005, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: I don't want this to turn into a flame war, but seriously, there is no need for the OP or anyone else to pay for a toprope anchor class. PATC will be at great falls on thursday this week...
Dang. I would have mentioned PATC, if I had remembered. Been a while since I lived up there. My bad.
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plund
Jul 26, 2005, 8:34 PM
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Holy crap....sorry I suggested professional instruction...my climbing resume is not much but I can build a bomber anchor...just saying good instruction is worth it....good luck & have fun....
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chadnsc
Jul 26, 2005, 8:57 PM
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dimsung1 wrote:
"We usually just us chains....wrap 2 chains around the biggest tree you can find, run the rope through all 4 of the end links.....its heavy and ugly but it works"
Also remember to question all advice given on the internet for some of it my be horribly silly.
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wjca
Jul 26, 2005, 9:06 PM
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In reply to: " We usually just us chains....wrap 2 chains around the biggest tree you can find, run the rope through all 4 of the end links.....its heavy and ugly but it works" Also remember to question all advice given on the internet for some of it my be horribly silly.
Why not just hammer or screw giant eye-bolts into the tree to clip into. I bet chains can really fuck up a tree (hug the tree don't fuck it). Plus, running your rope through all four end links of the chain to top rope not only likely produces a hell of a lot of friction, but new chains sometimes have rough spots where the links were welded that could damage the rope.
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chadnsc
Jul 26, 2005, 9:28 PM
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I agree with you that chains aren't a good idea. Check my last post again, it was a quote from dimsung1.
Here I'll fix my previous post as not to confuse anyone else.
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ajkclay
Jul 27, 2005, 1:58 AM
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In reply to: we usually just us chains....wrap 2 chains around the biggest tree you can find, run the rope through all 4 of the end links.....its heavy and ugly but it works
you are joking right?
Great way to kill the trees and rob future climbers of potential belays, not to mention the effect on the environment!
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