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cchildre
Mar 30, 2005, 3:53 PM
Post #26 of 35
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I don't think this is criticizm of Yuji, he rocks and no one can deny that. I think this is a discussion of what qualifies an onsight or a flash. I say this is subjective and for each to decide in their own mind. I think he onsighted the route since it follows my definition for the feat. Others will disagree preferring a stricter definition of onsight, which is fine. Yuji is not hiding the fact that he belayed a climber on the route and is up front about his actions prior to the ascent. Surely the onsight is or will be partially a marketing tactic (not that he did it for marketing) but everyone should decide for themselves how to view this achievement. Here we speak our mind and defend our position on the subject, once we all agree on the exact definition of 'onsight' we can submit it to Webster! LMAO, like that will ever happen......this is how the US Congress works.....reason why it takes them forever to do anything and when they do is just sucks bawls.
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kranked
Apr 2, 2005, 3:31 AM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: Aug 19, 2004
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We all climb for our own reasons, in our own style with our own ethics. One man's onsight is another man's flash.
What really matters is that we are out there having fun. Yuri said it was an onsight, so for him it was, for others it wasn't. What a truley inspirational guy he is!
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fiend
Apr 3, 2005, 10:29 PM
Post #28 of 35
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Registered: May 25, 2001
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I wish I had the 'rate' button today to knock down all the "What does it matter" posts. No one has been arguing to this point, it's all been friendly conversation. Heaven forbid anyone should debate climbing semantics.
I'd definitely say this one is in that grey area of how you define an onsight. Some people (philfell) have extremely harsh qualifiers for an onsight while others are more relaxed about the term.
Personally, I think you have to realize when you've seen or heard completely generic beta or whether you've seen and then used beta that might have been responsible for aiding in your send. Seeing the basic form of a climber moving up a route may not actually translate to any valuable information, whereas seeing him throw a heel hook and bathang for a rest will give too much away.
Given the information I've read in this post, I say it's a valid onsight. Although we'd have to know exactly what Yuji saw while belaying or previewing to make a better judgement.
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rockandsnow2000
Aug 3, 2005, 7:31 PM
Post #29 of 35
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one thing to add:
perhaps the purest definition of a sport-route onsight might include that you led the route PLACING YOUR OWN DRAWS!!! After seeing the video footage of yuji it's clear he's clipping pre-placed draws...so does it really count??? I realize that many high-end sport routes have fixed draws or draws left on by other climbers working the route...but I don't think that anyone will deny that stopping, putting a draw on, and then clipping the rope to the draw is much more strenuous (and time-consuming) than clipping a pre-placed draw. It's also work considering that with a pre-placed draw you can often clip from a variety of stances and distances making it much, much easier to climb.
To end though, Yuji rocks and it's a solid-enough onsight for me!!
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fracture
Aug 4, 2005, 1:59 AM
Post #30 of 35
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In reply to: perhaps the purest definition of a sport-route onsight might include that you led the route PLACING YOUR OWN DRAWS!!!
No.
:roll:
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fiend
Aug 4, 2005, 2:19 AM
Post #31 of 35
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In reply to: In reply to: perhaps the purest definition of a sport-route onsight might include that you led the route PLACING YOUR OWN DRAWS!!! No. :roll:
Yes. Otherwise it's a pinkpoint.
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rufusandcompany
Aug 4, 2005, 3:31 AM
Post #32 of 35
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: perhaps the purest definition of a sport-route onsight might include that you led the route PLACING YOUR OWN DRAWS!!! No. :roll: Yes. Otherwise it's a pinkpoint.
Of all the comments and criticisms in this thread, this one actually makes sense. During an on-sight burn, hanging the draws on lead does matter. From the looks of Yuji, during his onsight, flash, pinkpoint, blah blah blah burn, I believe that hanging the draws wouldn't have made much of a difference. Except for the one grunt move to the left side-pull, the dude was cruising. Nice send!!! Watch it at: http://www.climbing.com/av/
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janjaf
Aug 17, 2005, 8:49 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Dec 12, 2001
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Well, most competitions are called onsight, but in these, the draws are always in place. Sharma, Millet and Usobiagi all had draws in place on realization/biographié butu we still claim they redpointed it, not pinkpoint.
It's true of course, that placing the draws makes the climbing (but not the route) harder, but in the upper echelons of sportsclimbing, this is hardly ever done. So, I believe pinkpointing makes little sense with regards to sport climbing now. Of course in trad climbing it makes a great deal of difference, especially onsight.
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rufusandcompany
Aug 17, 2005, 10:05 AM
Post #34 of 35
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Janjaf,
Your point is well taken. My comment was meant strictly in the original sense of the term. Such rules seem to apply more as a personal ethic than as a general rule of style. I have climbed several routes in the 5.13 range, and many of them were already dressed during my ascents. I still considered them to be redpoints. These threads will probably never change the course of history, but at least they make for entertaining conversation. Yuji's onsight - by any standard - was brilliant. Shuugi!!!
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janjaf
Aug 17, 2005, 10:17 AM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: Dec 12, 2001
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indeed, and i'm sorry i fotgot to mention, that Yuji, absolutely and supremely RULES, having onsighted White Zombie.
and while i'm at it, i shopuld mention, that Tómas Mrazek has recently caught up with Yuji. I posted in another thread about this:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/95244
Can't wait for a video of that.
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