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overlord
May 14, 2003, 7:41 AM
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well, i was talking to some buddies and someone said that currently mad rock has teh stickiest rubber on the market. could it be that its stickier than C4 or even C4HF???
then, compare the prices... the most expensive mad rock shoe (hooker & hooker zip) is $89, the cheapest 5.10 is spire $99, whereas anasazis velcro are $139, mesa $143, southwest $149 and dragon $153.
so, if the mad rock rubber is the stickiest on market, should people start buying mad rock shoes instead of 5.10 (fitting is not the issue here, consider that both chosen models fit perfecly)???
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enigma
May 14, 2003, 8:31 AM
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[so, if the mad rock rubber is the stickiest on market, should people start buying mad rock shoes instead of 5.10 (fitting is not the issue here, consider that both chosen models fit perfecly)???
I think you're a little mixed up, because how a shoe fits is extremely important :roll: :!:
I don't think all shoes fit perfectly on all feet.(how did you decide on that logic??) Now doesn't that sound just ridiculous to you as well :?
Of course the rubber is important,but it a variety of factors that go into which shoes are the best for an individual.(I'm not even sure mad rock shoes are the stickest anyway,besides a friend of mine has them and they're uncomfortable and wearing out quickly as well). :roll:
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overlord
May 14, 2003, 8:59 AM
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yes, i know that the most important thing about the shoe is how it fits, but since thats not the issue here we can ignore that particular property. im only interested in woch rubber is the stickiest.
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climbsomething
May 14, 2003, 9:23 AM
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Don't know if it's the stickIEST, but it is certainly on par with Stealth. If one's priorities are rubber stickiness *and* cost, well over fit, then Mad Rocks are VERY competitive with 5.10s.
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leon0tron
May 14, 2003, 10:41 AM
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$139 for a pair of Velcros? Why are they so expensive in the country of manufacture and a lot cheaper here in Europe? Here in Ireland they are only €95 which even at todays rate with the dollar losing value it works out at $110
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michaelmay513
May 14, 2003, 1:28 PM
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I own the Hooker Zip and the Mugen and I think the rubber sucks, It's way to soft and therefore it wears out way to fast. I can't wait to get them resoled with 5.10 stealth C4.
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danl
May 14, 2003, 1:30 PM
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Very well could be the stickest.. but thats easy all you do for sticky rubber is make it soft. My friend had a pair of mad rocks. the rubber was so sticky after a lot of smearing for a few weeks it was almost worn through.
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overlord
May 14, 2003, 3:08 PM
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well, anasazi velcro costs about $100 in Slovenia. its more expensive in US because of higher standard, i think.
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alpiner
May 14, 2003, 3:12 PM
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Also agree that the rubber on my Hooker Zips is wearing too fast. Okay shoes but it's mostly gimmicks...for a decent price at least.
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sheppe
May 14, 2003, 3:18 PM
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Stickier isn't necessarily better. Because stickier = softer, a sticky shoe is not going to be as good for edging. That's why I have two pairs of 5.10s. I have a pair of Spires for when I want sticky, and a pair of Huecos (with the EVA heel pad) for when I want edgy. :)
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natec
May 14, 2003, 3:55 PM
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Buy Evolve! I ordered a pair with custom toe rands and a stiffened sole for crack climbing. These are the best shoes I've ever worn (I've tried most models out there). The TRAXX rubber is on par or better than C4 in every department. I have tried the madrocks and their rubber is sticky, however, the shoes are not made very well and will probably fall apart before making it to the resoler.
Check out the Evolves, I couldn't be happier.
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pbjosh
May 14, 2003, 5:06 PM
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MadRocks shoes (except for the Phoenix) are all way to soft - they have absolutely no support, it's like the midsole is a Kleenex. Not good shoes for edging. I guess they're ok if you climb lots of super steep stuff but I think they'd be useless for me...
josh
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curt
May 14, 2003, 5:21 PM
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Those people above that say softer rubber is stickier are simply wrong and they probably haven't followed the development of climbing shoe rubber over the last 20 years. 5.10s C4 rubber (one of the stickiest) is also one of the hardest--and holds edges very well.
As for the Mad Rock rubber, the "Formula 5" rubber, which is used on the outer rim of the dual density soles and on the entire sole of the Phoenix and Flash models, is quite similar to C4--from what I can tell.
My personal belief is that the dual density sole is somewhat of a gimmick and I like my Phoenix shoes better that my Sharks that have the dual density soles.
Contrary to another post above, I have climbed in my Mad Rock Phoenix shoes since early December of last year--and they are holding up fine. The shoes are built by the same company that made 5.10 shoes for years--and although 5.10 doesn't have the best reputation for quality sometimes, there is no reason to think Mad Rocks aren't made just as well.
Curt
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pico23
May 14, 2003, 6:24 PM
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In reply to: well, i was talking to some buddies and someone said that currently mad rock has teh stickiest rubber on the market. could it be that its stickier than C4 or even C4HF???
The consensus is that it is stickier. I have the single compound phoenix and it is sticky. My understanding is the #5 (harder compount) is stickier then any 5.10 rubber and the #3 (softer) is still stickier then that. Definitely stickier then my Vibram XSV, however, I like the XSV better for it's all around properties. Furthermore, I hate 5.10 shoes which is the only thing I don't like about my phoenix because under all the Mad Rock addons it looks like a 5.10 shoe. I think a lot of people buy 5.10 just for the C4 rubber and not for fit, quality, sensitivity, ect.
Your logic is weird though. Should you buy a shoe just beccause it cost less? If it fits, if it suits you needs, yes. My guess is if the rubber is really more sticky people will buy mad rocks anyway regardless of price as is always the case.
Another thing you might consider is just having your 5.10's resoled in #5 Mad Rock Rubber. Or alternatively having any brand shoe resoled in whatever rubber you prefer.
I don't really think it's a matter of Mad Rock is stickier and less expensive than 5.10 lets all jump ship and buy Mad Rock. That said, I think the Mad Rock rubber is better suited for boulders then trad climbers, gym climbers and sport climbers who put more mileage on there shoes. The reason is I hear a lot of people complaining it wears out tooo fast and they will be getting C4 when they resole. Thats definitely something to consider.
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collegekid
May 14, 2003, 7:34 PM
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softer rubber= stickier...whoever said harder rubber is stickier is talking out his ass.
the madrocks edge like crazy, so long as they are sized and fit properly.
They also smear really well, and the super thin midsole provides for extreme sensitivity while smearing.
I find the rubber topside of the shoe provides a lot of support for your foot, making edging easier (your foot doesn't roll as much when inside edging).
The only reason not to buy madrocks is the wear factor...they are wearing out at least as fast as my 5.10's are.
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curt
May 14, 2003, 8:21 PM
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collegekid,
In reply to: softer rubber= stickier...whoever said harder rubber is stickier is talking out his ass.
Curt
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snodawg
Aug 18, 2005, 3:20 PM
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I have a pair of the mugens and I love them. I think the love comes from the way the shoe fits though and not the rubber. The rubber is sticky as hell but it wears out way to fast. I have to resole a minimum of twice a year if not three times. I hope madrock changes their ruber compound just a little so as to make it last a little longer. Without the change I have to say that I am going to try c4 the next time I resole
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iconaddict
Aug 18, 2005, 4:00 PM
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anyone else find this resurrection ironic considering the current drama?
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jelliott
Aug 18, 2005, 4:06 PM
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In reply to: Buy Evolve! I ordered a pair with custom toe rands and a stiffened sole for crack climbing. These are the best shoes I've ever worn (I've tried most models out there). The TRAXX rubber is on par or better than C4 in every department. I have tried the madrocks and their rubber is sticky, however, the shoes are not made very well and will probably fall apart before making it to the resoler. Check out the Evolves, I couldn't be happier.
And they have great customer service, support the local boys
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jelliott
Aug 18, 2005, 4:08 PM
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and they don't make fun of you if you don't climb 5.11
:twisted:
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madrock
Aug 18, 2005, 4:49 PM
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Mad Rock has contacted several indepent labs and is in the process of having all of the major Rock Shoe rubbers on the market tested. We will release the results in approx. two months. Shoes will be tested per ASTM standards, at several tempetures and on multuple surfaces. We have already done internal tesing and are confident of the results. Shoes will be tested for durability, hardness and friction.
Joe Garland
Mad Rock
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jeffstephan
Aug 18, 2005, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: anyone else find this resurrection ironic considering the current drama?
my thoughts exactly..
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kyote321
Aug 18, 2005, 5:20 PM
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with all that madrock had going for it already, working out the bugs of stifness in rubber and shoe will, in my opion, make them much more competitive than they already are.
in america, climbers ahve been getting robbed by shoe manufactorers for years because they felt the market could handle it. like the mark-up on high-end skiis, they aren't that much better than low-end, but the people that buy skiis are willing to pay more.
if you can buy shoes cheaper in all of europe, even places like slovenia, that is a sad state of affiars. of course, the wacko-in-charge is at least partially to blame for this. i welcome cheper, well-made, mass-porduced korean shoes.
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edge
Aug 18, 2005, 5:34 PM
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In reply to: Mad Rock has contacted several indepent labs and is in the process of having all of the major Rock Shoe rubbers on the market tested. We will release the results in approx. two months. Shoes will be tested per ASTM standards, at several tempetures and on multuple surfaces. We have already done internal tesing and are confident of the results. Shoes will be tested for durability, hardness and friction. Joe Garland Mad Rock
Irregardless of the rubber (of which I already have a very informed opinion), I would worry more about the other factors in the shoe, as in materials and workmanship.
As a furnituremaker, I pride myself on the fact that my work will last 100 years minimum.
I could make a table out of Santo Domingan mahogany, but that doesn't neccesarily mean it is good unless I design it to be so. I have many friends/students/clients who have been sorely disappointed with their Madrock purchases.
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madrock
Aug 20, 2005, 3:39 AM
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Could you perhaps make us a pair of shoes out of Mahogany "since your have such an informed opinion." I'm sure those would be great.
I suggest you take a close look at our shoes, that are the highest quality on the market.
Just count yourself lucky we don't make furnature or you would be out of a job.
Joe
PS I don't want my shoes to last 100 years, they would stink something awful.
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