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islandclimber
Aug 23, 2005, 3:53 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks that its wrong for sport climbers to go ahead and bolt up nail up aid climbs?? In my mind the first ascentionists did not need to place bolts,! Why is ok to bolt up aid climbs but not trad climbs??? I think if an aid climb needs to be bolted to be freed, then it should not be freed at all. If it can be done on natural gear... its fair game.
This all comes from a recent trip to squamish, where I found out that Rurp Riot (A3) had been bolted by Chris Sharma!
What do other people think?
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shakylegs
Aug 23, 2005, 4:01 PM
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I think a lot of things.
Haven't heard about Sharma bolting in BC, however.
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cracklover
Aug 23, 2005, 4:01 PM
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In reply to: Am I the only one who thinks that its wrong for sport climbers to go ahead and bolt up nail up aid climbs?? In my mind the first ascentionists did not need to place bolts,! Why is ok to bolt up aid climbs but not trad climbs??? I think if an aid climb needs to be bolted to be freed, then it should not be freed at all. If it can be done on natural gear... its fair game. This all comes from a recent trip to squamish, where I found out that Rurp Riot (A3) had been bolted by Chris Sharma! What do other people think?
I think I'd like to hear the other side of the story before making a judgement. But if it is as you say, and there's nothing more to the story, then yes, that stinks.
GO
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caughtinside
Aug 23, 2005, 4:03 PM
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Free climbing is better style. :lol:
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cracklover
Aug 23, 2005, 4:06 PM
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How many bolts?
GO
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cracklover
Aug 23, 2005, 4:08 PM
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Was there any discussion with the FA party and the locals?
What is the ethic on the particular wall that that climb is on?
GO
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backclipped
Aug 23, 2005, 4:38 PM
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To bolt our not not bolt...Oh boiling blood of Christ, who gives a shit? :evil:
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slobmonster
Aug 23, 2005, 4:44 PM
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It's only OK to add bolts to an existing route if you're famous.
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dingus
Aug 23, 2005, 4:49 PM
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I totally dare you to go yank those bolts and mail them back to Sharma in a box. Tell him real Canadians don't retrobolt the routes!
Anything else is just words.
DMT
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refugee
Aug 23, 2005, 5:16 PM
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Dude, who cares about aid climbing anyway? I'm being totally serious, too. Go aid up real shit like the fisher towers or el cap and leave the crags for hard climbing. stop being a crybaby LCD just because you can't climb as hard as sharma.
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islandclimber
Aug 23, 2005, 6:00 PM
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In reply to: I totally dare you to go yank those bolts and mail them back to Sharma in a box. Tell him real Canadians don't retrobolt the routes! Anything else is just words. DMT
I like the way you think... ha ha ha...
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refugee
Aug 23, 2005, 7:21 PM
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yep...nothing is sacred.
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pbjosh
Aug 23, 2005, 7:25 PM
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But aid climbing on boulders is sacred and should be preserved? Pffft who gives a rat's ass, pick a battle that matters.
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d1ll1gaf
Aug 23, 2005, 7:27 PM
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I don't think that there can be any hard/fast rules as to when a established route can be bolted, however my opinion is that the following need to be looked at to determine if the bolting is justified:
1. (As previously mentioned) What is the opinion of the FA's? What are the local ethics? Have other established aid climbs had bolts added to the climb?
2. Since the OP lists the route as A3 I am going to assume that the route requires pitons, and as such regular damage was done to the rock anyway. In this case if the bolts where simply placed where a piton would normally be used, no extra damage is being done to the rock.
3. Did the person who placed the bolts have the skills to realistically send the route free? If an aid route would go at 5.15 then somebody who has never climbed a 5.14 (and I am nowhere near this level) should not be bolting it. They can't send it, so leave it alone. However, if the route is within the skill range of a climber (and has never seen a free ascent), and the only method of protecting lead falls would be bolts (trad gear would not do), and the above issues have been addressed satisfactorily, then bolting an aid route could be justified.
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clarki
Aug 23, 2005, 7:43 PM
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In reply to: But aid climbing on boulders is sacred and should be preserved? Pffft who gives a rat's ass, pick a battle that matters.
Not sure where Rurp Riot is located in Squamiish but are you aware that there is a couple of slightly larger that boulder climbing opportunities to be had in and around Squamish.
Just so you know.......
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pbjosh
Aug 23, 2005, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: But aid climbing on boulders is sacred and should be preserved? Pffft who gives a rat's ass, pick a battle that matters. Not sure where Rurp Riot is located in Squamiish but are you aware that there is a couple of slightly larger that boulder climbing opportunities to be had in and around Squamish. Just so you know.......
I'm aware that there is a a couple slightly larger that boulder climbing opportunities there.
However, I'm pretty sure Rurp Riot is on a large boulder, not on one of the larger formations.
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dudemanbu
Aug 23, 2005, 9:37 PM
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i think everything should be bolted. it's safer.
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paulc
Aug 23, 2005, 9:58 PM
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Come on now, all you aid/trad climbers come off looking like a big bunch of babies. Routes change all the time. Proclaiming that once an aid route, always an aid route is a bunch of bunk!
Besides how many people in the last few years have even tried Rurp Riot? This impacts almost no one, and those that do aid climb around here have much better things to do than hang out on the forest floor with the boulderers cheering them on. Can you imagine? "Send dude, send!!!" Yeah right, send that aid move like a mofo. Geez.
Anyhow the line looks cool for a free attempt and apparently Sharma was one hang from sending it, so it's not at all like it isn't possible.
I guess to answer another posters three questions.
1) FA Bob and Glen Woodsworth, A3. Local ethics are variable, but lots of free but sketchy gear climbs have been retro'ed in the past few years. I would expect (but don't know from first hand experience) that since this was done as part of the Petzl RocTrip that FAs would have been consulted.
2) The name of the climb is Rurp Riot, do you think it requires pins??? I think the free route uses lots of other holds though not just the pin scars.
3) See above for bolting status vs ability of climber.
While I respect your aid experience, I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. Get off the ground where no sport climbing/bouldering pansies are going to piss on your precious routes.
Paul
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wjca
Aug 23, 2005, 10:02 PM
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In reply to: 2. Since the OP lists the route as A3 I am going to assume that the route requires pitons, and as such regular damage was done to the rock anyway. In this case if the bolts where simply placed where a piton would normally be used, no extra damage is being done to the rock.
I'm sure you meant to say:
...no extra damage is being done to the rock except for all those big ass holes that had to be drilled in order to shove the bolts in there."
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timmy_t
Aug 23, 2005, 10:29 PM
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I had all this shit written up to talk about this, but I just decided to delete it because I realized how stupid this all is. I feel that I have strong ethics and believe in good style, but I'm not upset about this route getting bolted. For those of you that are, go to Squamish and climb all sorts of styles (aid, trad, boulder, sport) and you will understand the issue.
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refugee
Aug 23, 2005, 10:50 PM
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it's true. people who know ethics and understand how climbing works don't care.
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flamer
Aug 23, 2005, 11:13 PM
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In reply to: Routes change all the time. Proclaiming that once an aid route, always an aid route is a bunch of bunk!
That's fair.
But you can't go bitching if some decide's they want to nail it after it goes free or while it's being attempted. In fact now it sounds like a very safe route to practice using RURPS and Beak's....THANK YOU CHRIS SHARMA!!! Now pass the weed!
I've always said " the difference netween hard aid and sport climbing is only a few bolts"....
josh
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squish
Aug 24, 2005, 12:09 AM
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FYI, Rurp Riot is on the large Kacodemon Boulder, which is in the middle of the boulder ghetto at the foot of the Chief. Most other routes on Kacodemon are hard sport climbs. There are a some other lines on Kacodemon which are also a bit shady. By shady I mean there are drilled pockets and stuff, so you can argue ethics about these other routes too. (It may well be that Rurp Riot is the one with drilled holds that I'm thinking of. I can't remember.) Kacodemon was long used as a practice rock by the old timers whose ethic you're trying to defend here.
Oh, and it's literally shady there too—I don't think the route even breaks through the forest canopy. There's so much other big aid on the Chief that I hardly think the status of this one short route will matter in the long run. It may well provide better use as a sport route.
I'm not an aid climber. If you're a local aid climber and have different views on this route, speak up.
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