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8flood8
Aug 25, 2005, 9:04 PM
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I am having a hard time googling sets of gear. Really, i'm not sure what i am going to need doubles of.
1) Where can i buy sets of cams
2) What size do i stop at? i am a beginning leader and i am not looking to get into offwidth until i am much more confident
3) What size do i start at?
i have seconded up to 5.10a trad.
This is my rack thus far
BD hexes
#1-11 (doubles of #5-9)
BD stoppers
#7-11
1-green BD cam
I am thinking i'd like to start out with some metolius power cams because of the rangefinder system.
call me a noob or a poser, but i am the one risking my life on lead and i'd rather learn what a good placement looks like, than find out i didn't do it right.
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trenchdigger
Aug 25, 2005, 9:11 PM
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You shouldn't be leading if you need the rangefinder system to tell you what "good" placement is. Just because it's in the green doesn't mean it's good. Actually, the green range of the metolius cam is really overcammed for many placements. If you want to lose metolius cams, place them well in the green. I call it the new Metolius Marketing Program. :lol:
Follow more trad and learn what a good placement is before you start leading.
The gear you have is sufficient for most easy routes. I would add BD nuts 3-6 first, then throw in BD cams 1, 2, and 3. Once that becomes too sparse for what you're leading, you won't have to ask this question anymore.
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vegastradguy
Aug 25, 2005, 9:12 PM
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In reply to: 1) Where can i buy sets of cams 2) What size do i stop at? i am a beginning leader and i am not looking to get into offwidth until i am much more confident 3) What size do i start at?
the preferred place is your local gear shop. if you dont have one, Mountain Gear and Gear Express are highly regarded by most folks.
Get cams to about 3"-4" (Black Diamond Blue Camalot)- this takes you up to fists nicely and will cover most moderate beginning climbs.
Start at (roughly) Yellow Alien/Orange TCU/Gray Camalot size....somewhere in there. Maybe a bit bigger. THe smaller the cam, the more difficult it is to tell if its a good placement.
In reply to: I am thinking i'd like to start out with some metolius power cams because of the rangefinder system.
do not buy cams because of the rangefinder. aside from being an imperfect guide (and a good way to get cams stuck in the rock...), if you dont like the cams, you'll be wasting hundreds of dollars. buy a set of cams that you like the feel of!
all of 'em work, so its just a matter of personal preference. dont let people tell you anything else- go feel a bunch of different cams and buy the one you like the best. if its metolius, great, if its wild country, bd, trango, whatever- get what you like.
and....find someone to follow your leads who can evaluate good gear placements. dont rely on the rangefinder alone- theres much more to good placements than just making sure the cam is retracted properly.
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8flood8
Aug 25, 2005, 9:19 PM
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Thanks for the replies!
i was trying to avoid piecing it together, thusly paying much more than i want to.
i completely hear what the two of you are saying about learning with an advanced trad climber.
In any case thanks for the advice i will start out small and let experience guide me further.
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feanor007
Aug 25, 2005, 9:27 PM
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i'd recomend climbing anchors by john long, it's like $15 and the best piece of 'protection' i ever purchased. all the photos and pro/con sections really accelerated myy gear placement learning curve, now if i could shell out another $15 for Climbing with Balls and get similar results, that would be somthing
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chromwells_head
Aug 25, 2005, 9:36 PM
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If price is a concern, try the trango 2005 cams, the ranges are simular from the #5 trango=.75 bd camalot to the #9 trango flexcam to the #3 you can pick a full set up from mgear.com for arround 350-400
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harmonydoc
Aug 25, 2005, 10:07 PM
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I'm a NOOB leader too - got my BD Camalots C4 1-3 at Gear Express for $164.95 (savings total about $28 over buying them separately). They have other sets, too. Love 'em!
http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=32594
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sirdrinksalot
Aug 25, 2005, 10:14 PM
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I think its hilarious that someone can compare and contrast the difficulty level of the route versus the size, quality, or even amount of gear required for the route. Ya dig?
Also, you are logged on to a computer and the WORLD WIDE WEB. I cannot even concieve why you would post that you are having trouble finding sets of cams. Did your chocks fall out of the sky onto your gearsling?
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sirdrinksalot
Aug 25, 2005, 10:18 PM
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Oh my God Flood. Dude I apologise for being a dick. I hope i don't turn into one of those people who flame the noob for asking questions. I guess i overreacted a little.
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8flood8
Aug 25, 2005, 10:18 PM
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if you can read...
you might see that i had more than one question, dick
otherwise, thanks for the replies :)
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8flood8
Aug 25, 2005, 10:20 PM
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i read your post a little too soon.
Apology more than accepted
and please accept my own humble apology.
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sirdrinksalot
Aug 25, 2005, 10:27 PM
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You need three full sets of FCU's. Two sets of TCU's. Two sets of Nuts. A set of Micro Nuts. A set of Ball Nutz. Some RURP's and a bigwall hammer. Then, if you want to get into bigwall ascents you can double that.
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shiggetyshiva
Aug 25, 2005, 10:31 PM
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Holy sh*t! Apologies on RC.com!!! Bless you both :D
flood, assuming you'll be working on your single pitch stuff first, don't worry about having too many cams right off. It's when you start needing some of your rack for anchors between pitches that it starts to get expensive.
Nonetheless, mountaingear and gearexpress are good for deals. Also, Rock Empire is now selling sets of their cams for pretty cheap. Not quite BD quality, but pretty solid for the money.
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sirdrinksalot
Aug 25, 2005, 10:31 PM
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You can buy gear at deep discounts from gear express. they really have the best deal consistently. I have a set of power cams. a set of camalots. and a set of metolius TCU's. a set of metolius curved nut( which i do not recommend, i wish i had gone with the BD nuts.) and a set of Metolius curved hexes.(bomb!) I trippled up on the #2 camalot cuz I love hand cracks.
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trenchdigger
Aug 25, 2005, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: I think its hilarious that someone can compare and contrast the difficulty level of the route versus the size, quality, or even amount of gear required for the route.
Hilarious?
Let's think about this...
In general, easier trad routes will have more options for gear placements, right? More options for placements means you need less options on your rack - hence you need less gear. So, in general, the quantity or gear required is related to the difficulty of a route.
Also, I think it's fair to say that easier trad routes will generally accept mid sized gear. Not many easy trad routes will require micro nuts or micro cams for protection. Likewise, not many easy routes require big gear such as larger cams or big bros. Climbing on such features is generally more difficult and therefore usually found on more difficult routes. Also, since easier routes generally have more gear options, finding mid-sized placements should generally be easier. So it would be fair to say that the size of gear is also related to the difficulty of a route.
Now, of course these are generalizations. Take them with a grain of salt, and consult your guide book for details on what gear you need for a route.
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sirdrinksalot
Aug 25, 2005, 10:42 PM
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At the risk of stirring the shitpot, I have to disagree. It is impossible to find the gear options from the difficulty rating of a route. Unless its an R rated route ofcourse. Routes are not rated for their difficulty according to their protectability.
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fng
Aug 25, 2005, 10:45 PM
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I don't know what kind of budget you are on but 'rock empire' at rockempire.com has some good stuff. I bought a full set and have used all the sizes except the #6 and 7(but I have a couple routes in mind to use them). The cost is $15- $30 cheaper than most other cams and I think the quality is good. They are not as smooth as a DMM but what is. I got 10 cams from .25 to a big #7 for under $300. The sling on some of the models(mine) is double wrapped so you can get good extension. I put them through the ringer and just ordered some doubles for the smallest sizes.
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8flood8
Aug 25, 2005, 10:59 PM
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wow
looking at rock empire...
it looks like the price could set me up for a long time.
i think two of the above posters have noted that RE is of lower quality than BD.
is this a life saving difference? i mean are we just buying a label or is there a measureable qualitative difference between brands.
i realize that the specs are listed and i honestly can't fathom the difference between 12-16 kn. i know that me falling on gear isn't going to generate those kinds of forces. Weight is not a big deal to me either because i'm not trying to shave off ounces... not until i start cranking hard anyway...
so beyond weight and nifty rubber cable protectors, is there much of a difference?
i noted the rock and ice editor's choice on the RE page. Which seems to me, to be a strong community backing for their gear. Is this just politics or does the community agree??
thanks again for the time spent posting your opinions!
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mrtristan
Aug 25, 2005, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: wow i think two of the above posters have noted that RE is of lower quality than BD. is this a life saving difference? i mean are we just buying a label or is there a measureable qualitative difference between brands.
Black Diamond cams have the best "feel" of any cam. These are high quality pieces of equipment that will last you for many, many a year. I had to save up forever as a poor high school student for my set of Camalots, but let me tell you, it is SO worth it.
Life saving difference? No. But your BD cams will probably lost longer and have a better feel longer than RE cams. Buy the right thing the first time. It will save you from just buying it later.
-Tristan
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8flood8
Aug 26, 2005, 12:16 AM
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i totally feel you on that one Tristan, but my pocket book is a different story.
My GF gave me the ok on buying some cams right now. So the difference is get the rock empire and get a set of 12 cams for 369 dollars or get a set of 8 camalots for 550.
This is also weighed out with the fact that i am trying to pay off an engagement ring too..
so
all in all.. i'm buying the RE and the Ring.
cause... in the long run... the RING will give me the most satisfaction... and the RE will last me until my homies can kick in with some camalots for wedding presents! hahahahaah
!
thanks, seriously for all of the input...
oh and on the subject of camalots for wedding presents.... anyone wanna come to my wedding?!!
:P
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shiggetyshiva
Aug 26, 2005, 12:33 AM
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Hey Flood, good luck with everything! Even though others may disagree, I think you've got your priorities straight! You'll have a full rack of cams to play with, and your girlfriend will be so happy she might even agree to let one of your gift registries be on rei.com (they do have one, y'know) :) Then you really could get Camalots as wedding presents (maybe some Aliens, too!)
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8flood8
Aug 26, 2005, 12:47 AM
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Thanks a ton! :)
so i just placed the order.
set of 8 Rock Empire Comet cams .25 to #5 ( .47 - 3.54 )
and a set of 5 Rock Empire Robot cams #1 to #5 ( .79 - 3.6 )
so i am getting some single stems and some double stems. Hopefully i won't beat these up too much while i learn and then i can get some awesome stuff once i know what i am doing !
In reply to: Complete is your trad rack, but not yet a Jedi are you |
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boku
Aug 26, 2005, 1:52 AM
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I'm pretty much a trad noob, but here's one thing that I learned on the Royal Arches route this weekend: it pays to have a few extra cams in the hand crack size range. I climbed RA with a friend who has thee or four of the yellow RE Robots, and I added a yellow RE Comet to the pile. There was one pitch where I plugged in every one of those RE yellows, and one earlier pitch where I would have plugged in every one of them if I hadn't left a couple at the belay (silly me).
And, yeah, you'll encounter a handful of spray about how RE is low-quality gear, and there's one guy who complains that he had a RE cam come apart on a slackline setup. But note that RE cams carry UIAA certification, and also that, as any mechanical engineer can tell you, slacklines can put hellacious loads on equipment, loads that can fairly easily exceed rated strengths for cams.
I think that RE cams are just fine; and I and many others continue to trust them to the limits of our ability to place them properly.
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kmsmoguls
Aug 26, 2005, 4:46 PM
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I recently started leading and obviously pro is important but it is just one part of trad leading. Don't forget to have slings, extra lockers, cordellet or two etc, etc. I have a BD C4 cams .5-4 and a set of nuts and I have found that they have worked well on single pitch stuff. Your partners will likely have some gear also so you can combine forces to make sure you have everything you need. Hope this helps.
Erik
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