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nodecaf
Aug 31, 2005, 1:08 PM
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I'm looking for people's thoughts on intro mountaineering courses since I plan to take one this winter. Obviously there are a lot out there, most are AMGA (or other) certified, but how do you really evaluate by just looking at web sites? That's why I'm asking all of you.
Google "mountaineering course" and you get hits from Alpine Ascents, Colorado Mountain School, Colorado Mountain Guides, Exum, EMS, etc. ad nauseum/infinitum. Any experience with any of these or others?
I don't want someone who's gonna just drag my ass up a hill. I want to learn and practice skills that I will eventually use with small climbing teams (I have no interest in ever being "guided" up a mountain). I have very strong outdoors/backpacking skills and some rudimentary rock climbing skills. No ice climbing experience (yet).
And please don't tell me "find an alpinist who's willing to teach and just go with him." I live in Indiana -- there are no friggin' alpinists here.
PM me if you like, or just respond to the post. Thanks!
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anykineclimb
Aug 31, 2005, 2:06 PM
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Well, how far and which way do you want to travel? You can go to Wyoming or Colorado but but won't get any alpine training. You can head east to New Hamshire but Washington, I think would be your best bet for general mountaineering courses. Both AAI's (Alpine Ascents International and American Alpine Institute) have excellent programs. well, from what I hear at least...
Use this great resource called rc.com. You might be able to find someone here to learn from. If you trust strangers off the internet that is. :shock:
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sharpie
Aug 31, 2005, 2:35 PM
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For a Basic Mountaineering course, any of those outfits that you listed would be fine choices. Then it becomes a matter of how much time and money can you commit and where do you want to go to take the course.
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davelwang
Aug 31, 2005, 2:55 PM
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I have experience with Colorado Mountain School. While I really got along with the guide and I thought he was a great climber, they are more geared towards hauling clients up a mountain than teaching them skills.
I have heard great things about American Alpien Institute and I think they are more about learning the skills than summiting.
Dave
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froggy
Aug 31, 2005, 2:56 PM
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Where are u planning on taking this course at? What area/location, etc....?
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iceisnice
Aug 31, 2005, 2:57 PM
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i was never a big fan of the courses out there, but, i've climbed recently with a few people who have taken the NOLS mountaineering course and i have to say, they really knew their stuff. it seems like NOLS did a good job in teaching the important things like judgement, self evaluation, and critical thinking skills.......not just how to place pro. i'd give them a call. pretty sure they only have summer courses though.
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angelaa
Aug 31, 2005, 3:06 PM
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In reply to: I have experience with Colorado Mountain School. While I really got along with the guide and I thought he was a great climber, they are more geared towards hauling clients up a mountain than teaching them skills. I have heard great things about American Alpien Institute and I think they are more about learning the skills than summiting. Dave
I had a friend try to take an Avalanche/Mountaineering course from CMS one Nov/Dec and there wasn't enough snow. . .so the class went climbing instead. :shock:
I would have been pissed that I paid for an Avy/Mtn course and had to go climbing (for the same $$) instead.
For that reason alone, I would suggest that you go somewhere that the conditions would be more favorable and predictable - spend the extra $$ and time to go to the North West and take a class or two while your out there!
I have a friend who has taken a few courses and trips with AAI and he's very happy with the level of learning he's been able to acquire from the guides.
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boredatwork
Aug 31, 2005, 3:11 PM
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I just took an Basic Mountaineering course in the Sierra's this past July through American Alpine Institute. It was exactly what I was looking for in a course. I learned snow travel, ice axe self-arrest techniques, crampon use, snow anchors, etc.
My guide talked alot about the planning that goes into any alpine situation - gear choice (minimizing gear), hazards, weather conditions.
I agree that I never want to be drug up a mountain and I never felt that way with my guide. I would highly recommend AAI again, actually would like to do a glacier course up in Washington next year. Feel free to PM any additional questions you might have.
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nodecaf
Aug 31, 2005, 3:12 PM
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In reply to: Where are u planning on taking this course at? What area/location, etc....?
I reckon that if I'm going to drop $1000-ish on a week long course then I might as well go somewhere I can do it right. I guess that leaves me with the Cascades if I want to learn real glacier techniques in the lower 48.
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ecjohnson
Aug 31, 2005, 3:26 PM
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NOLS, if you're willing to travel a bit. They have great mountaineering courses in the Winds, Alaska, Patagonia, etc. I don't know if they're AMGA certified, but they kept talking about AMGA regulations on my climbing course. And they teach more than just the hard skills.
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rongoodman
Aug 31, 2005, 4:13 PM
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I'll put in another plug for the American Alpine Institute. I was on the Ruth Glacier with them two years ago for their Denali prep course and was very pleased with them.
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nedsurf
Aug 31, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Not a big fan of the guiding thing but I heard from others that NOLS and AAI are good courses. I second the opinion of traveling to a good mountain place. AAI will take you up Mt. Baker During the course I believe. Fun stuff.
Don't just go to a guiding place that has a one day self arrest type class. They call their clients cattle trains. Used one cause I couldn't find partners and did not have that great of a time. that type of instruction is just so they can do the rest without actually letting a team devlop. different thing than what you are looking for I guess. Their focus is to get mostly regular people up a mountain rather than cater to dedicated climbers. Just thought I'd share my experience however.
I have also had the experience of just hanging out with other people (usually older) and gleaning all of my knowledge from them ,freedom of the hills and another ,mountaineering specific, text.
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furrymurry
Sep 2, 2005, 3:05 PM
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I don't have enough good things to say about my NOLS Mountaineering course. If you can drop the cash, go for it.
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cthulu
Sep 4, 2005, 9:58 PM
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Yet another vote for NOLS. I did their Wind River Mountaineering course and loved it. However most of their courses are 30 days+. My course had a lot of backpacking (which I loved) in between mountains/crags. If you just want skills and not a drawn out wilderness experience, I'd go AAI.
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andrewbanandrew
Sep 4, 2005, 11:18 PM
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I haven't taken any sort of courses but it's something I've been looking into and asking about, and from what I've heard, AAI and NOLS are the most reputable and are more 'teaching oriented.' A guy from the gym who recently took up a job as a guide said that I wouldn't learn a whole lot if I just went with a regular guide outfit, because their goal is to move as many people up and down in a season as possible, not to teach.
Also from what I've seen the Moutaineers are a bit...odd. Not necessarily bad, but 'interesting' in their own sort of bureaucratical way.
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mdacar
Sep 8, 2005, 8:29 PM
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I did a course with Mountain Madness and I really liked it. I plan to go next year for the advanced alpine course.
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mtnfr34k
Sep 9, 2005, 8:27 AM
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RMI is not a typical guide service! So for all you PNW'ers with visions of "cattle trains" (you know, not even the RMI guides I know use that derogatory term) - change your world view. Most guide services access technical routes that require the ratio be kept lower. Most guide services make a distinction between, and offer climbing instruction or climbing experiences. Instruction typically turns the pace of travel and the technical difficulty down a notch so that the students can concentrate on the skills being taught, and then have the opportunity to practice those skills. Climbing experience, or typical guiding, allows the guest to climb at their technical and physical limits and spends the minimum amount of time at teaching.
I think guide services are the best bang for the buck, especially one-to-one instruction, and I'm proud to be biased about this. Its similar to the learning curve in skiing: learning from you friends is better than learning on your own; learning from a professional in a group lesson is better than learning from your friends; learning from a professional one-on-one is better than learning in a group.
Guide services typically offer more flexibility in scheduling, programs, and goal setting than outdoor education organizations like OB or NOLS. Shop around - many of the small guide services are less rigid than the big companies. Look for guide services that are AMGA accredited, or for individual guides who are AMGA Alpine Certified or IFMGA certified (IFMGA, or UIAGM, certified guides hold AMGA Certifications in Rock, Alpine, and Ski Mountaineering). A list of accredited companies and certified guides is available at www.amga.com.
If you're set on learning glacier travel skills in the Cascades, I'd recommend contacting the North Cascades Mountain Guides, www.ncmountainguides.com.
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nodecaf
Jun 28, 2006, 9:22 PM
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Registered: Jul 12, 2005
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So I took American Alpine Institute's Intro to Alpinism course the week of Memorial Day and all I can say is that it was positively awesome. There was a very good instructor:student ratio and I learned so much. What impressed me the most was that once I took the time to explain my climbing goals they modified the program to focus on what I was most interested in.
They concentrated on learning skills so that I can be self-sufficient in the mountains. It was also nice that they wanted to teach how to make good decisions rather than give a set of rules to follow.
We spent 5 days on Mt. Baker on ice/snow skills and then the sixth day at a crag working on rock skills.
Again, I have nothing but praise for the AAI guides and programs. Any other instructional course I take will be with AAI.
Thanks to the replies to my OP -- I'm really glad I took the advice and went with AAI. Cheers.
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