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yannbuse
Sep 26, 2005, 2:12 AM
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There have been a couple times when I would think to myself; please don't let anything go wrong, not now. There have been times where it seemed that at the moment one would take leaps of faith to get out of hairy situations when up in the mountains.
When would you make the decision to get rescued? Obviously it depends on the risk tolerance of the individual. So instead of generalizations, perhaps people have tell tales in mind, or benchmarks of what is manageably dangerous. I keep running scenarios in my head of what would happen when things went wrong, but realistically it’s inaccurate. But something else came to mind.
Recently I had to bail off a very strenuous climb to find that the escape route included 12 rappels, not the 5 mentioned in the guide book. Thus complications followed; rappelling off one nut, old pitons that bent to hell when weighted, etc. Anyways when creating an ablacov to rappel over a massive bergstrung, my partner (very experienced, knows the area extremely well), turns around to me, gives me our 2 ice screws, a short little cord and the hook and says "at least if I go on this rappel, you will have enough to make an anchor and attempt yourself" (I had a 60m rope in my pack). He made it down, in the worst I can think was fcuk, now this shitty anchor has to be weighed again for another stunt rappel.
Would you have called rescue? Where I was climbing, rescue goes as follows, if an accident hasn't happened don't call for rescue. But in this case the accident would have been more of a statistic and the rescue would have been for one person. We managed through the dangers, but in retrospect my partner claimed that in 20 yrs of climbing, it was one the sketchiest things he’s done. Thus, I feel it was too close for confront. We went through the ordeal without aid of rescue, thus it can be said that it wasn’t needed. However, the whole situation seemed to have gotten way out of hand very quickly.
So if you reach a point where an accident is most probably going to happen, would you call rescue? Or go through with it and feeling justified calling rescue should anything happen. I don’t know I am a little confused; I am very interested as to what others think.
Thank you for your time
Yann
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lewisiarediviva
Sep 26, 2005, 2:46 AM
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I think rescue would have been an easy out. I'm not trying to down play your situation. It sounds like a very bad time. But rescue makes it easy to get out before we reach the gates of Hell. Who would have known that you would be just fine in the long run if you had called. You'd be paying a pretty hefty bill for something you could have done for yourself. It's like paying someone $20 to sweep your floors. Pretty lush if you can aford that- but if it makes your finances tight? Why?
Sounds like you just needed a moment or two to tell your self that you had passed the gates, and you'd be to the other side soon.
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climbingnurse
Sep 26, 2005, 2:47 AM
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I really can't imagine calling for a rescue if I wasn't already injured. The people who come up to get me are going to put themselves in just as much danger as I'd need to in order to get down. (Assuming that a heli-sling is not an option.)
I've done sketchy rappels in the dark, but I've always been reasonably sure they would hold and been able to build backup anchors for the first person to go down.
It might have been wise to put in those 2 screws and equalize them as a backup anchor for the v-thread. It's crazy not to, really.
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asandh
Sep 26, 2005, 2:53 AM
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:)
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coldclimb
Sep 26, 2005, 2:59 AM
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Personally, I would never want to be rescued unless I had to be. That is, there is no way I am going to get out of it without help from an outside source. Chickening out is not grounds for a rescue for me. I got myself there, I should get myself out. In your case, I'd say you did the right thing, from my perspective. You could get yourself off, and you did, sketchy or not.
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overlord
Sep 26, 2005, 5:13 PM
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sounds to me like you made the right decision.
and why didnt you back up the anchor with two ice srews&co?? was there no place to use them or what?? and if thats the case, why did he give them to you anyway?? to shave a bit of weight :wink:
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oldrnotboldr
Sep 26, 2005, 5:40 PM
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I agree with the others as well, that you did the right thing. Personally, I would have to be injured to the point that neither myself or my partner could do a self rescue.
Also, I would have used at least one of the extra gear to back up that shaky point.
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slobmonster
Sep 26, 2005, 5:42 PM
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Getting out of a jam is one of those skills that successful alpinists have used many, many times. It sounds that though you were freaked by being "out of your comfort zone," you still dealt.
Nothing bad happened to either of you, besides being scared. In what venue does this warrant a rescue?!?
Some questions: If you had a sixty meter rope in your pack, why not make full-length rappels? Why not back up the potentially sketchy anchors with gear as the fat guy raps first?
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yannbuse
Sep 26, 2005, 9:32 PM
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Great responses! To answer a few questions...
The reason he gave me the two screws, was so that if the anchor would fail, i would be able to create one myself (they were the only 2 screws we brought with us). Also, the reason why we did not back up the anchor was because we couldn't actually find any ice to make the ablokov, only really dense snow. The screws themselves would not have helped back up the anchor since they hardly stayed in the dense snow. When rappelling off the crap anchor we actually laid down on the 60-90 degree snow to create more friction. In addition after the dis-information from the guide book, we were expecting more rappels on the glacier (it was very very steep), thus we would need our only 2 ice screws for potential rappels. Naturally if we had extra gear to place we would have, to sum it up our shortage of gear, one of our rappels was off my partner's shoe lace.
The reason why i hadthe other 60m rope is because this rappel was 30m. Actually it was 30m exactly as i can recall - good question though. But i recall my partner saying that i should hold onto if it all goes pear shaped.
By all means i consider that i am fairly new to Alpinism. In my relative short time, i have climbed a number of routes in chamonix while i was living there. This same incident happened in Chamonix, however, i have been through tough spots on the mountain before, especially in this range, thus i feel comfortable up there, but this time round, it did not feel right. I was pretty sure something wrong was going to happen.
A little extra info, i sometimes read about accidents happening because of a series of small mistakes. Well on this climb, prior to this pitch of rappeling, our rope got stuck and thus we had to prussik back up. we were able to get about 12m of rope before it would take the weight. We tried to place pro on the way up, but there was nothing. At the top we find that a loose rock the size of a fist was wedged between the rope and the face, a little dodgy; when we picked up the rock the rope went flying. So when little things keep creeping up on you, apparently they could be the source of danger.
I hope this answers some of your questions. Nonetheless i appreciate the responses.
Yann
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htotsu
Sep 27, 2005, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: On me dit que je grimpe pour echapper la realite; je leur dis que je grimpe pour me rapprocher de la realite. - Gaston Rebuffat
Yann's question is an interesting one. The consensus seems to be that it is never, ever appropriate to call for rescue as a preemptive measure, so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a situation when someone did exactly that.
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slobmonster
Sep 27, 2005, 4:46 AM
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In reply to: so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a situation when someone did exactly that.
"Hi. Can you hear me now? I'm stuck on Lion's Head. We need a helicopter."
"Sorry, no helicopters. You'll have to walk down."
But to volunteer a perhaps more legitimate example:
Last month on Nanga Parbat, Tomaz Humar himself was airlifted via helicopter. Stranded, but not injured, he surely would have met his death without a rescue. I'm sure his sponsors are paying for his rescue with aplomb.
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lewisiarediviva
Sep 27, 2005, 3:43 PM
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It would really be embarrassing to end up walking out of the woods caring a handmade stretcher with your rescuer on it.
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