|
8flood8
Oct 7, 2005, 11:39 PM
Post #1 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
/\
|
|
|
|
|
afiveonbelay
Oct 7, 2005, 11:47 PM
Post #2 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
|
yeah, the clove hitch
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 7, 2005, 11:54 PM
Post #3 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
is there a mechanical device which would follow you up and catch you if you fell while leading without a partner.
edited for context*****
my apologies afiveonbelay
|
|
|
|
|
kobaz
Oct 7, 2005, 11:57 PM
Post #4 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726
|
Something like a grigri or soloist would do the trick, but if you have to ask this question you are not ready for roped soloing.
|
|
|
|
|
skinnyclimber
Oct 7, 2005, 11:59 PM
Post #5 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 406
|
Many including the clove hitch on a 'biner, silent partner, grigri, soloist...
search: self belay plus lead or toprope, whichever one you plan on checking out.
skinny
|
|
|
|
|
afiveonbelay
Oct 7, 2005, 11:59 PM
Post #6 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
|
In reply to: Something like a grigri or soloist would do the trick, but if you have to ask this question you are not ready for roped soloing.
Ditto
Rigging can be complex. The head space can be even more boolean.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 8, 2005, 12:06 AM
Post #7 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
1. i am not asking for myself.
2. how would a person ever find out if they never knew... without asking?
ignorance of technology doesn't presuppose inadequacy
the reason i asked is because the person i was talking to was told that the soloist and silent partner were only good for TR.
|
|
|
|
|
gunkiemike
Oct 8, 2005, 12:52 AM
Post #8 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
Sarcastic post deleted when the OP showed himself not to be as totally clueless as I had concluded.
|
|
|
|
|
afiveonbelay
Oct 8, 2005, 12:55 AM
Post #9 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
|
no, the soloist and the silent partner are fine for leading. soloing, (here I mean rope soloing) is a weird place. i have a clear memory of being mid-route on a ledge with my head in my hands, with the crux yet to come and no single rap to escape. Kind of a mirror held up to oneself.
I have no idea what that means.
Sorry if anything rubbed wrong 8flood8
|
|
|
|
|
greenketch
Oct 8, 2005, 12:56 AM
Post #10 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 501
|
It's good you asked if the reason you give is for real.
Yes, a soloist or a silent partner can be used on lead. A Grigri works as well. In either case the rigging can be a challenge and the fustercluck potential is high. Recomend to your friend that they not try without instruction. The last thing you want to do when you are out solo is get yourself all tied up in improper rigging. :cry:
|
|
|
|
|
mingleefu
Oct 8, 2005, 1:14 AM
Post #11 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 466
|
In reply to: the reason i asked is because the person i was talking to was told that the soloist and silent partner were only good for TR.
The person you were talking to got the information from an uninformed individual.
The soloist "is suitable for lead climbing or top roping and you can also rappel with it," per manufacturer. "The Soloist must be used with a chest harness because it will not lock when inverted."
The silent partner "can be used for leading or top roping," per manufacturer. "It will catch a fall in any attitude, whether upright or upside down."
Both devices are made by Wren Industries.
Other common methods include using a Gri-Gri or, as mentioned, a clove hitch. Clove hitch is the least expensive method, and some folks even prefer it to mechanical devices. Gri-Gri's are common on many folk's racks, and get used for soloing purposes out of convenience. There are ways to modify them to make them work better, but I don't know how to do that exactly, though I have a rough idea. I've used the gri-gri a couple times to solo, but would leap at the chance to try another device. (Note that I have limited soloing experience. What I'm writing is largely remembered from previous similar threads.)
If you want to read more about soloing technique and gadgetry, I recommend searching on supertopo.com. Most the folks who can give you halfway decent advice around rc.com are also posting on supertopo, but supertopo has many very experienced folk who don't seem to come within a stone's throw of rc.com. I suggest doing a bit of research before posting there so that you can ask good educated questions.
Be careful.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Oct 8, 2005, 1:16 AM
Post #12 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
my sincere apologies, i'm used to seeing smartass answers on this forum...
i see that your response was not that, A5.
Yes, my friend was asking me about climbing by herself and i recommended the soloist or the silent partner and she told me that the local co-owner of the gym had told her that those devices were only for top-roping.
in any case thank you for the informative responses and the heads-up-anecdote.
i have been in sticky situations myself and i know what you are saying about the boolean headspace.
and i agree...just because i'm still alive... it really does show you who you are :)
|
|
|
|
|
foeslts16
Oct 8, 2005, 2:11 AM
Post #13 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 27, 2002
Posts: 210
|
I am in total shock here..... This kind of thing happens so infrequently. Someone asks a question, and instead of flaming said person, he actually got relevant information. the word Troll or T1 didn't even come up. wow, rc.com must be changing.
|
|
|
|
|
mingleefu
Oct 8, 2005, 2:46 AM
Post #14 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 466
|
In reply to: I am in total shock here..... This kind of thing happens so infrequently. Someone asks a question, and instead of flaming said person, he actually got relevant information. the word Troll or T1 didn't even come up. wow, rc.com must be changing.
It's Friday night. All the mean people are out doing evil things.
|
|
|
|
|
basilisk
Oct 8, 2005, 12:59 PM
Post #15 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2005
Posts: 636
|
what do you mean by using the clove hitch? just tying a clove to each piece of pro as you go up? sorta making an in-line anchor?
interesting concept if that's the case
|
|
|
|
|
threadkilla
Oct 8, 2005, 2:08 PM
Post #16 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 19
|
In reply to: what do you mean by using the clove hitch? just tying a clove to each piece of pro as you go up? sorta making an in-line anchor? interesting concept if that's the case
No, don't do that. You could factor two onto one piece of pro and ruin your whole day.
For rope soloing, a clove hitch tied on a locking biner (or two) attached to your harness can be used, but you have to stop climbing and have a free hand to feed out slack at regular intervals.
|
|
|
|
|
afiveonbelay
Oct 8, 2005, 2:24 PM
Post #17 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
|
In reply to: what do you mean by using the clove hitch? just tying a clove to each piece of pro as you go up? sorta making an in-line anchor? interesting concept if that's the case
actually basilisk, quite right. I use the clove when aid soloing (kind of weird to lead on it. must monitor the knot continuously). That's my life link plus a back-up in case the clove doesn't seize. (never had a fall yet on this set-up) Also use the gri-gri.
The rope is fixed at the ground before you begin, BUT periodically on bomber pieces and directionals, one throws a clove onto the gear biner. By doing this it keeps the system tighter, less rope rub, less zipper potential on those itty-bitty wires, etc. Just remember that each time you do it the fall factor is changed. reset in a sense so you need to think about where you clove in these sub-anchors.
|
|
|
|
|
threadkilla
Oct 8, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #18 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 19
|
In reply to: In reply to: what do you mean by using the clove hitch? just tying a clove to each piece of pro as you go up? sorta making an in-line anchor? interesting concept if that's the case actually basilisk, quite right. I use the clove when aid soloing (kind of weird to lead on it. must monitor the knot continuously). That's my life link plus a back-up in case the clove doesn't seize. (never had a fall yet on this set-up) Also use the gri-gri. The rope is fixed at the ground before you begin, BUT periodically on bomber pieces and directionals, one throws a clove onto the gear biner. By doing this it keeps the system tighter, less rope rub, less zipper potential on those itty-bitty wires, etc. Just remember that each time you do it the fall factor is changed. reset in a sense so you need to think about where you clove in these sub-anchors.
Nice, only this is not the aid forum, he's talking about a rope solo, not an aid solo.
|
|
|
|
|
mingleefu
Oct 8, 2005, 4:42 PM
Post #19 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 466
|
In reply to: In reply to: what do you mean by using the clove hitch? just tying a clove to each piece of pro as you go up? sorta making an in-line anchor? interesting concept if that's the case actually basilisk, quite right. I use the clove when aid soloing (kind of weird to lead on it. must monitor the knot continuously). That's my life link plus a back-up in case the clove doesn't seize. (never had a fall yet on this set-up) Also use the gri-gri. The rope is fixed at the ground before you begin, BUT periodically on bomber pieces and directionals, one throws a clove onto the gear biner. By doing this it keeps the system tighter, less rope rub, less zipper potential on those itty-bitty wires, etc. Just remember that each time you do it the fall factor is changed. reset in a sense so you need to think about where you clove in these sub-anchors.
No, basilik, we were NOT referring to using a clove hitch on every peice like you said. There are circumstances where it might be useful, but putting clove hitches on the pro doesn't have anything to do with the belay technique being referred to.
When you solo, you do not tie in to the end of the rope. Instead, the end of the rope is fixed at the bottom of the route, at an anchor that is built for an upward pull (like an upside-down toprope anchor). As you climb, you are giving yourself slack, progressing upward along the rope. The rope does not slide through the gear below you (as in a 2 person belay system). The clove hitch we were talking about as part of the belay system is on a big locking biner on the harness. You adjust it as you climb higher. You have to give yourself enough slack so that you can reach the next stance where you will be able to adjust the clove hitch again. The clove hitch makes more sense for aid climbing than it does for free climbing.
Afiveonbelay - are you pulling all of the stretch out of the rope below your bomber piece? If not, a fall on any pro above that piece would mean an upward pull and yank your bomber gear up and out, no? And if you are pulling all the slack out, then you're robbing yourself of that length of rope stretch, resulting in higher impact forces. I know it's a good idea to use a rebelay in solo-aid, but I think there are other ways that make more sense.
btw, Basilik - Stuff like this is the reason folks say not to get this technical info online. While there are lots of folks who have a good idea of what they're talking about, it is often difficult to describe. Take the time to fully consider anything you're reading- if it doesn't make sense, don't do it.
|
|
|
|
|
afiveonbelay
Oct 8, 2005, 10:34 PM
Post #20 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 178
|
In reply to: Afiveonbelay - are you pulling all of the stretch out of the rope below your bomber piece?
Of course, that way the sub-anchor is part of the basal anchor system. It won't pull up and out. If you read my post, I say clearly that there are situations that this rebelay/sub-anchor is necessary and has constraints on its use. I did not go into exact details because basilik's question was aside from the main point. He just couldn't image clove hitching on pro. Now he can begin to see that rigging for solo work is different than regular leading. AND yes I put in rebelays/subanchors when I rope solo free climb. One just has to learn where. Rope soloing is a three-part endeavor where leading the pitch is only step one.
|
|
|
|
|
areuinclimber
Oct 8, 2005, 10:52 PM
Post #21 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2004
Posts: 436
|
the best thing to use when aid sololing is the gri-gri, end of discussion. the clove hitch is a last resort dropped the gri-gri alternative becuase it sucks and is slow. the only down side to the gri-gri is the "auto feed" that occurs when you get around 20 or 30 feet of rope out. this is easily avoided by tying off at a bomber peice midpitch using a clove hitch.
the whole system is super easy when you actually think about it. build the base anchor for pull in all directions but mainly in the direction of pull most anticipated on the pitch (e.g. traversing or straight up pitch). then put the rope into a rope bucket thats hangin' on the belay anchor. the part you really have to pay attention to is threading the rope thru the gri-gri the right way. the loose end (not attached to the anchor) goes thru the side with the hand/rope picture on it and the tied end on the side with the climber on it or the "braking" side. oh yeah, attach the rope to the anchor with a fig. 8 and then tie an 8 on a bight about 2 feet up on the rope and attach a screamer there and then to the anchor.
|
|
|
|
|
basilisk
Oct 9, 2005, 11:22 PM
Post #22 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2005
Posts: 636
|
In reply to: No, basilik, we were NOT referring to using a clove hitch on every peice like you said.
haha. and this is why i asked
In reply to: btw, Basilik - Stuff like this is the reason folks say not to get this technical info online. While there are lots of folks who have a good idea of what they're talking about, it is often difficult to describe. Take the time to fully consider anything you're reading- if it doesn't make sense, don't do it.
absolutely understood.
i never try anything new on the rock anyway. i like to test things on a small scale first, like in my room (at at least as far as that system can get me. heh)
thanks all for taking the time to elaborate
|
|
|
|
|
lajhanata
Oct 10, 2005, 3:59 PM
Post #23 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 81
|
So, I inherited a silent partner from a friend who moved to NZ. It's definitely not a beginner piece of gear. It works pretty well with a small diameter rope (mine's 9.4), but there's definitely some rope drag through the device. It works a lot better than a gri-gri or just a clove hitch on a biner. It works well enough when you're jonesing and don't have a partner. It's not really something to just jump into though. Don't start experimenting on anything that you don't feel comfortable free soloing. It's absolutely critical to have a prussic or ascender rig in case you fall into a dangle. Having a 70meter rope with clear distance markings is also really important. If you practice every weekend you might safely get on multipitch in a year. It does get you climbing without any politics though.
|
|
|
|
|
mingleefu
Oct 11, 2005, 9:46 PM
Post #24 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 466
|
In reply to: Having a 70meter rope with clear distance markings is also really important.
what's the best way to do this?
tee hee
|
|
|
|
|
lajhanata
Oct 11, 2005, 10:03 PM
Post #25 of 28
(6364 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 81
|
My rope came marked at the half point, I added quarters and then 3/8 and 5/8 lengths (7 or 8 meters on either side of the midpoint). It's a matter of personal preference how far from the middle you want your marks though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
