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roy_hinkley_jr
Oct 7, 2005, 5:18 PM
Post #26 of 40
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It would be silly to make the webbing stronger. Has anyone ever heard of a sling breaking on an old tricam (assuming it wasn't fixed and left in the sun for ages or so fuzzed out it looked like velcro)? You can't compare ratings from old ones since many were made before the industry shifted to 3-sigma ratings; a lot of things got "weaker" even though nothing changed. The weight reduction is less significant than the bulk reduction and greater longevity.
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jabtocrag
Oct 7, 2005, 5:21 PM
Post #27 of 40
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, the issue here is that different companies have different numbering systems- for example, BD nuts... of course, since CAMP is the only company that makes tricams, not an issue, but it is an industry problem- lack of standards. I'm not necessarily ok with calling for standardization- adds a whole new set of problems, but I'm ok with climbing on my own rack and knowing my gear really well- by number and by color. As for weight of tricams, check it: Weight comparison for tricams in grams (from CAMP’s catalog): Anodized Reg .5 29 26 1.0 35 35 1.5 49 50 2.0 55 55 According to the catalogue, though. the strengths are the same. Shady. A quote from their online catalog: "Anodized Dyneema Tricams are stronger and lighter ( Dyneema webbing is generally 4 kN stronger and up to 20% lighter than nylon) than their classic predecessors." Nicely formulated... they're not talking about weight or strength of their gear, only about the Dyneema webbing. :roll:
That's exactly it...my guess is that the failure point for tricams is in the pin, not the webbing. I'm thinking that the spectre webbing is more of a marketing gimmick. :roll:
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napoleon_in_rags
Oct 7, 2005, 5:22 PM
Post #28 of 40
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In reply to: What would people do when they are climbing at night?
Use a headlamp. Then you can see the color
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jeremy11
Oct 7, 2005, 5:54 PM
Post #29 of 40
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yep, sounds like a marketing trick :shock: they just needed something new to sell to all of us that already have tricams, talk up how much better their new design is, call the old design "classic" in the literature - implying it is now out of date, then we all rush to the store and buy a bunch of new tricams. that said, if you dont like your new tricams anymore, I'd be glad to help lighten your rack :lol: by the way, dyneema slings are colored all the time on cams, even camp's own cam models. or just put the nylon slings on the anodozed heads.
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scrapedape
Oct 7, 2005, 6:25 PM
Post #30 of 40
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In reply to: You can't compare ratings from old ones since many were made before the industry shifted to 3-sigma ratings; a lot of things got "weaker" even though nothing changed. The weight reduction is less significant than the bulk reduction and greater longevity.
Maybe so, but as you might have guessed from the fact that I can still read the strength rating on some of my labels, my tricams are less than a year old.
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nvrsmr14
Oct 11, 2005, 3:33 PM
Post #31 of 40
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we will see how minimal and insignificant the difference in streach between nylon and dynnema it is when you are rigging a rescue size load off of tricams with a static (minimum stretch rope). You should know the conditions of use before you say something you know nothing about!
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scrapedape
Oct 11, 2005, 4:25 PM
Post #32 of 40
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In reply to: we will see how minimal and insignificant the difference in streach between nylon and dynnema it is when you are rigging a rescue size load off of tricams with a static (minimum stretch rope). You should know the conditions of use before you say something you know nothing about!
Why don't you enlighten us with some numbers then, please.
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camp_climbing
Oct 12, 2005, 10:16 PM
Post #33 of 40
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The new tricams with anodized heads and Dyneema slings are marginally lighter than traditional tricams equipped with nylon webbing (the pinky is the same weight, #1 is 1 gram lighter and #s 1.5 and 2.0 are 2 grams lighter). In their chocked position, the old and new tricams have the same strength ratings (6, 8, 12 and 12 kN respectively). In their cammed position, the Dyneema tricams are stronger (2 additional kN for sizes 0.5 and 1.0 - 8 additional kN for sizes 1.5 and 2.0). The general rule regarding the advantages of Dyneema over nylon is that Dyneema is all around stronger and more resistant to abrasion and the elements.
This information will be posted on the C.A.M.P. USA website at http://camp-usa.com/module/product/detail.asp?ID=214
I hope this clears things up. Oh, and check out the C.A.M.P. costume climbing photo contest if you're interested in winning one of the sweetest harnesses ever. Here's the link http://camp-usa.com/article.asp?ID=107
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vawwyakr
Oct 12, 2005, 10:26 PM
Post #34 of 40
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In reply to: they look sexier. ;-) |
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stzzo
Oct 12, 2005, 10:37 PM
Post #35 of 40
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Are they as stiff? I always appreciated the stiffness of the slings when placing the old ones.
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petsfed
Oct 12, 2005, 11:27 PM
Post #36 of 40
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In reply to: we will see how minimal and insignificant the difference in streach between nylon and dynnema it is when you are rigging a rescue size load off of tricams with a static (minimum stretch rope). You should know the conditions of use before you say something you know nothing about!
I take it then that you are a highly qualified rescure professional? pfft.
Strength ratings on gear have nothing to do with real world uses. Odd but true (and I don't feel like tracking down the source on this one) but did you know that wires on Wild Country Rocks were once twice as strong as they are now? I bet you'll never guess why. In the amount of time that those higher strength wired rocks were on the market, there was not a single case, not even third hand anecdotally, of the wire breaking. EVER. So WC dropped the strength of the wire. To this day, a wire breaking on a WC rock is a rare event, the placement almost ALWAYS BREAKS FIRST. Let me say that again. THE PLACEMENT ALMOST ALWAYS BREAKS FIRST. As such, plus or minus two kN on anything but a carabiner or a bolt isn't going to make a damn of difference because by the time that 2 kN comes into play, the rock itself has long since failed. In addition, the published numbers reflect the breaking strength of the gear in a mechanical jig in optimized conditions. That's why Metolius TCUs are rated quite a bit below their rated strength. Metolius doesn't think that the mechanical break test is an accurate reflection of expected performance in the field (and that factoid you can find if you dig for it on the Metolius website).
Finally, the only place I've heard of the nylon elongation issue coming into play (in all seriousness) is in complex hauling systems, where wire slings (eg Frost draws) are preferred. And that's just an efficiency thing.
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camp_climbing
Oct 13, 2005, 2:39 PM
Post #37 of 40
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A qualified source yes. I work for C.A.M.P. USA.
There has been some confusion over the new strength ratings and weights and this was our effort to clarify. If anyone has questions regarding the differences between the new Dyneema tricams and traditional nylon slung tricams, please feel free to submit inquiries through the C.A.M.P. USA website at www.camp-usa.com. Here is a direct link to the contact form http://www.camp-usa.com/company/feedback/
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giano
Oct 13, 2005, 2:52 PM
Post #38 of 40
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Registered: Oct 13, 2005
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Hello, I have seen the new camp tricams too but the oldest are still on the market: you can buy the one you prefer but I think that the new tricams are lighter and stronger, color is not so important!
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nowinowski
Oct 13, 2005, 3:28 PM
Post #39 of 40
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Registered: Sep 5, 2003
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I have broken a WC nut wire under bodyweight. Beware rust on fixed nuts!!!
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rhyang
Oct 13, 2005, 3:30 PM
Post #40 of 40
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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In reply to: Plus, I think I read that dyneema won't take dye colors, so the only way to color-code is by weaving another material into the mix.
While it is not possible to dye dyneema, nylon is generally woven in on these kinds of slings (though I have not seen what is supplied with the new camp tricams). Nylon of course can be dyed. In theory it should be possible to have different color dyneema slings for each size tricam.
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