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What goes on in your head while leading?
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dirtineye


Oct 6, 2005, 10:06 AM
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Dirtineye,

Take it easy--I said "often" in my post. I don't recommend unnecessary runouts just for the fun of it. I was just explaining that you have to learn the tradeoffs between overprotection with poor rests (and pumping out) vs. running a little further--safely--to conserve energy.

My point in addressing that is that these things don't even occur to topropers, or even sport climbers (unless we're talking about skipping bolts maybe).

I acknowledge what you're saying, but I don't think that anybody reading the thread would think I was trying to encourage unnecessary runouts :P

Remember that you have hit the ground and why. Remember who pointed out to you how to avoid such things.

Remember just who coined the phrase, "Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another.".

And know this: You won't find Corbett, Ilgner or Stegg running out anythign they don't have to.

I disagree that people will understand what you say you mean. People run stuff out for dumb reasons all the time, and get hurt doing it. I've helped carry one such fellow out with a broken ankle.


drunkenmonkey


Oct 6, 2005, 10:50 AM
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Interesting question;
My normal situation is split into two distinctly different parts. If I'm cruising then I generally look at the rock, enjoy its form and relish the physical movement getting really excited and shouting to my partner how great the route is. Thats the first part, the second goes a little like this. When I get to a hard section I know is going to push me I would usually go through a mental dialog of rationalizing the fear and then push on if it feels right. However recently I've found something really disturbing happening. It's as if i have schizophrenia. Instead of the normal internal dialog I have a second person in my head who takes over physically before I've concluded the usual dialog. Imagine driving a car and then suddenly someone takes control of your body and drives in a way that starts to freak you out. Very weird. Perhaps I should stop climbing!


stabla


Oct 7, 2005, 5:13 PM
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i think about just climbing in general, tend not to pay attention to run-outs just keep climbing until i know something is solid. i generally don't screw with less than marginal placements, its a waste of time and it disconnects me, i am to worried about protection and not worried enough about the upcoming climbing moves, just my style of leading
cheers


trenchdigger


Oct 7, 2005, 5:22 PM
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It's all good, you can do it man, you 've been there before, you gonna be fine.
Sometimes there is a little Pink Floyd in my head:

"All you touch
All you see
All your climb would ever be"

Intersting... I always thought "Fearless" off of Meddle was a more appropriate tune to get stuck in your head...

"You say the hill's too steep to climb
Climb it.
You say you'd like to see me try
Climbing.

You pick the place and I'll choose the time
And I'll climb
That hill in my own way.
Just wait a while for the right day.
And as I rise above the tree lines and the clouds
I look down, hearing the sound of the things you've said today. "


kingofthefourpointnines


Oct 7, 2005, 6:02 PM
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It might be of help to read Arno Ilgner's book "Rock Warrior's Way". He goes into one of the most detailed and best ways to handle lead climbing and to create growth in your climbing experience.

This book may be the best climbing tool you ever aquire.

keep smiling,

Mike


Partner tattooed_climber


Oct 13, 2005, 12:46 AM
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What goes on in your head while leading?

does my breath smell bad?
i can't believe he's wearing the same socks as me
is that iron maiden cd in my truck or still at home
wonder is steph is going to call me tonight
wow!look at that cloud...
does my ass look big in this?


t-dog
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Oct 14, 2005, 3:17 AM
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Re: What goes on in your head while leading? [In reply to]
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I am a noob, but here is my trad lead algorithm:

Check knots, belay;
Issue commands;
Find first placement off belay to avoid factor 2 fall;
Go;

while(!dead() && !done()) {
Climb();
Evaluate();
Breath();
}

boolean done() {
if (at belay ledge) return true;
if (at top) return true;
return false;
}
boolean dead() {
if( uncounscious || !breathing) return true;
return false;

}
Climb() {
Find best holds. Move each limb accordingly.

}
EvaluateSituation() {
if(oh s---?) print "Falling!";
else if(over my head?) print "Oh s---!, off route"; downclimb;
else if(time to place gear? && goodplacements exist?) { place gear; }
else { findnextrestspot(); }
}
Breath{
take breath; hum a tune if scared;
}
findnextrestspot() {
Look for good holds; time to place gear should be at that spot;
}


Heheheh, that totally made sense to me!!!

I know, I'm a software dork, oh well...


zozo


Oct 14, 2005, 3:20 AM
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"Dum de dum de dum, Dum dum de dum de de dum de dum de dum"


onsight_endorphines


Oct 14, 2005, 4:04 AM
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Cold stone, warm sun, feel the wind blowin.
Wow, check out the sandbars in the river.
Man this is isolated, I'm being healed by the second,
How awesome it is to be on top of the world...


kalcario


Oct 14, 2005, 4:20 AM
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what am I thinking about when leading trad?

don't fall because I really don't trust my date...er, belayer

there must be a less boring way to get laid than this

damn she's cute

should I put in a piece here? nah, save it for the anchor

hiking up to the base was harder and more interesting than this...oh well

off belay!


jt512


Oct 17, 2005, 1:10 AM
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what am I thinking about when leading trad?

there must be a less boring way to get laid than this

Joe, I'm surprised you haven't given this subject more thought. As I'm sure you know, the long-term goal is to educate your date/partner on the superiority of sport climbing over trad. However, there is often a transition period (while they come to understand that climbing is about movement, not standing around with some body part stuffed into a crack) that we must manage. Here are some tactics to help navigate through this difficult period.

1. Steer trad climbing days toward single-pitch areas. The logic behind this is two-fold: one, the only thing more boring than one pitch of uninteresting climbing is pitch after pitch of it; and, two, at single-pitch areas you spend more time hiking between climbs, which must translate to less time "climbing."

2. Avoid all-trad trips in favor of mixed sport/trad trips. You need rest days anyways, and although it would be less boring to spend your rest day moving furniture, you can use your rest day to trad.

3. Actually, an advanced version of (2) that I've been working lately: climb in a party of three or more, and on the trad day hike to the route with the group, but instead of climbing, simply sleep, read, or drink beer, while the others climb. This results in more trad climbing for them, and less for you, and everyone is better off.

HTH

-Jay


sekcot


Oct 17, 2005, 1:19 AM
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While I'm leading I am most often wondering what pointers I can take to better my table-tennis game.


mdude


Oct 17, 2005, 1:27 AM
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WOW..... is MoM upside down.

MD


mdude


Oct 17, 2005, 1:28 AM
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AND P____!


ihuang


Oct 17, 2005, 3:08 AM
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Death, agony and dying -- a truly religious experience.


rckymntneer


Oct 17, 2005, 3:13 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
The second biggest issue to overcome, IMO, is to realize that sewing up a route will often use up your gear AND pump you out quicker. Sometimes running it out IS the safest option.

This is bullsh!t.

IF good gear is there for the taking, and you choose to pass it by, then you are confusing style and safety.

I agree wholeheartedly. Sending a route is optional. Living to climb another is mandatory.


phillipmikerevis


Oct 17, 2005, 3:14 AM
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DEEP DISH


slcliffdiver


Oct 17, 2005, 3:25 AM
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Purple haze all in my brain
Lately things just donít seem the same
Actiní funny, but I donít know why
íscuse me while I kiss the sky
Purple haze all around
Donít know if Iím cominí up or down
Am I happy or in misery?
What ever it is, that girl put a spell on me
Help me
Help me

I'm pretty sure I go through close to the same "thought process" as I did when I first started; pro spacing, how long a sling to put where ect. but the though process isn't verabalized in my head very often anymore. It's generally either a song or pretty quite in my head unless there's a section that's especially vexing in one way or another. On easy sections I tend to sing out loud sometimes as it gets harder both my mouth and my brain tend to get quiter except for the occasional spontanious curse word. The songs that tend to show up in my head while climbing are generally alot better than the ones that come to me while hiking for some reason. The hiking ones tend to be somewhat annoying (I want to be your drill instuctor shows up a lot trudging up long hills) and I can't get rid of them the climbing ones are generally much cooler. I think my regular climbing partners tend to be people who can put up with my poor singing and playful antics at belays.


scottman13


Oct 17, 2005, 3:34 AM
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I have just started to lead, so i am constantly scared s###less when im up there. it's ok falling when you are ready for it, but i am so freaked out about losing my grip and falling accidentily. It is completely detromental to my climbing too, because when you are scared, you stop thinking about technique and start climbing on bent arms, pinching too hard and not breathing properly. all of these factors get you pumped a whole lot faster and basically just tire you out. Luckilly, as my friends have told me, after a while, you lose your fear and accually start to develop a sick love of lead falls. I cant wait!


hosebeats


Oct 17, 2005, 4:10 AM
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While leading trad my mind switches on and off. If I'm climbing my body is just moving and breathing. When it's time to place gear my mind clicks back on and assesses where and what to put. If I'm really sketched out I sometimes can't get my mind to shut up.

When leading sport I try to get to that place where my mind and body work in unison. No outright conscience thought cluttering my mind and distracting me. Just an evaluation of holds/limbs/balance/etc that get my hands and feet moving. When I fall I evaluate much more consciously.

But then again I lead easy trad and harder (for me anyway) sport.


climbingaggie03


Oct 17, 2005, 4:52 AM
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I usually think about all the things I'm doing and just enjoy the moment, but occasionally (usually during a hard move with bad fall potential) I find myself thinking SH*T! why am I up here, again!?!?!


rock_junkie


Oct 17, 2005, 5:14 AM
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Thought...
Dam my package looks huge in this harness
I hope there's some tourists
Maybe they'll have a camera to document my junk
Aloud...
Clipping!
Thought...
Wow, I almost got three feet above that last bolt
Oh Sweet, some tourists!
Grunt so you'll get their attention
highstep so they can see your package
Awesome, I think they saw it


kuan


Oct 17, 2005, 5:36 AM
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1. Okay, I know my knot is safe because I checked it right before I got on this route.

2. I know my belayer is competent and attentive and his gear is reliable.

3. Because my belayer is competent, I know that my fall will be safe.

4. Falling isn't that bad. Usually.

5. If I don't go for this, I'll never get stronger.

6. I will eventually find a place to rest if I just keep moving.

7. Why are my hands so damp?

8. Making some sort of move is better than hanging here with my strength rapidly draining out of my arms, fingers, back, etc...

9. Okay, if I commit to this move instead of going half-assed, it will increase my chances of sticking to it.

10. I might as well figure out this section for a later burn. Even if I forget my own beta, muscle memory has got to count for something.

11. If I go for it and don't make it, I can always hang out and bitch/make excuses!


skinner


Oct 17, 2005, 6:49 AM
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I always am aware of and understand the Objective, and Subjective dangers before I even tie in.
I constantly confirm that I am physically and/or mentally capable of handling what I am getting myself into, or I bail. The rock will be there another day. If I allow myself to cross that fine line of what I am capable of pulling off mentally or physically (that day).. I have lost control, and that's how people die, and will continue to die.
What do I think about? I am constantly accessing and managing the risk.
Does that mean that I don't take risks? No, it just means that the risks I take ensure a high probability of survival.


Partner tradman


Oct 19, 2005, 10:30 AM
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What goes through my mind while I'm leading trad:

Where's my next gear?

Couple of moves up there.

Damn, nothing.

Where's my next gear?

Must be something.

Getting pumped.

Come on, next gear.

Really pumped now.

Come ON!

Forget the next gear, what was my last gear?

Hang on, what WAS my last gear?

Shit I'm pumped.

Come on, what was the last -

....

Oooooh my balls.

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