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vegastradguy
Oct 17, 2005, 5:59 PM
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In reply to: The only reason I even questioned it was (I try to be safe) was to allow more people to enjoy a nice climb up one of the worlds greatest monoliths with some added protection along the way. However, money and access issues are probably why it hasnt happened....
you havent ever been up to Snake Dike, have you? it's not exactly lacking traffic due to the run-outs on it. Even during a weekday, a line for the route can often be found there.....
Protection hasnt been added because it isnt needed, not because of money and access issues.
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josephgdawson
Oct 17, 2005, 6:27 PM
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Those of you who post on the history of Snakedike should read up on it before you post. Sometimes it is good to know about a subject before you write about it. Under the history heading about Snakedike in the Yosemite Free Climbing Supertopo, it says that an attempt was made to add bolts to the route WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE FA PARTY. Basically, the guy adding the bolts tired out and only ended up replacing the achors.
As for the elitists who think that adding a few bolts between anchors would ruin the route, that is just bullshit. If you dont like a bolt, dont clip it. Running out a full rope length is just not safe. As an aside, I think someone outta go chop a bunch of bolts out of some 12s and 13s. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If a bolt is not protecting you from a groundfall, then only a sally ass would clip it.
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cmajercz
Oct 17, 2005, 6:39 PM
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As for the elitists who think that adding a few bolts between anchors would ruin the route, that is just s---. If you dont like a bolt, dont clip it. Running out a full rope length is just not safe. As an aside, I think someone outta go chop a bunch of bolts out of some 12s and 13s. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If a bolt is not protecting you from a groundfall, then only a sally ass would clip it.
While I don't think the route SHOULD have bolts added, I do think this is an EXCELLENT point. No one cares about superfluous bolts on a 12.
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areuinclimber
Oct 17, 2005, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: As for the elitists who think that adding a few bolts between anchors would ruin the route, that is just s---. If you dont like a bolt, dont clip it. Running out a full rope length is just not safe. As an aside, I think someone outta go chop a bunch of bolts out of some 12s and 13s. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If a bolt is not protecting you from a groundfall, then only a sally ass would clip it. While I don't think the route SHOULD have bolts added, I do think this is an EXCELLENT point. No one cares about superfluous bolts on a 12.
i think your a bitch. if your mentally weak then dont do it., kinda the same mentality of the whole you dont have to clip the bolt if you dont want to. well you dont have to climb the route if you CAN'T. and that goes for the rest of you bitches and lightweights that think any route should be retroed (it was the FA's line so let that person make the decision, end of story)
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ambler
Oct 17, 2005, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: again something for me to poop on, but alas, no poop today :P |
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glowering
Oct 17, 2005, 6:54 PM
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the color code will work. jsust clip the yellow or the green. its then left up to the individual and the rock it self is still there, im not chipping holds, i mean come on......
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landgolier
Oct 17, 2005, 7:02 PM
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In reply to: The only reason I even questioned it was (I try to be safe) was to allow more people to enjoy a nice climb up one of the worlds greatest monoliths with some added protection along the way.
Come on, there is a goddamned FEDERALLY MAINTAINED cable system up the back side of the thing
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ambler
Oct 17, 2005, 7:09 PM
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In reply to: the color code will work. jsust clip the yellow or the green. its then left up to the individual and the rock it self is still there, im not chipping holds, i mean come on......
Most trad climbers are chasing experiences outside of the red-tape-5.9/yellow-tape-5.10 envelope that makes sense enough in the gym. Non-gym feelings about adventure, commitment and aesthetics come to mind. Depending on your own experience you might not understand this, but why disbelieve those who do? There are other paradigms besides the gym.
Note: The above is quoted verbatim from a post one year back.
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yosemite
Oct 17, 2005, 7:40 PM
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It is our responsibility as a community to find common ground. Somewhere between “clueless suburbanizing” and “elitists who think that adding a few bolts between anchors would ruin the route, that is just sh__” is a solution. There must be – this is America.
To me, the answer is obvious. The addition of bolts to a route like Snake Dike would be anathema. To risk injury or worse to new climbers with monster run outs is also unacceptable. Chipping to lower the difficulty of the 5.3 jug hauls is just wrong. What we must do is drill holes every body length suitable for those weird-ass removable bolt thingies that climbers could carry and use at their own discretion when nobody is looking.
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/removable-bolts.html
Intermediate climbers could test their mettle by not using the removable bolt thingies, but could duct tape bat hooks to the holes and use screamers. Hard core elitist sponsored climbers could demonstrate their stuff by using the FA-sanctioned retrobolts on this historic 5.7 route.
What could be better than that?
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cmajercz
Oct 17, 2005, 7:45 PM
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First of all, the first paragraph of that post was a quote and second of all I'm quite capable of leading the Snake Dike as it stands.
I was simply stating i don't agree with the argument that if a bolt doesn't protect a ground, then it's not necessary. NOT SAYING IT SHOULD GET MORE BOLTS.
If it's the first ascentionist's call, then there shouldn't be any bolts.........just the holes drilled for the "pegs" that anchored the rope. Right?
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markguycan
Oct 17, 2005, 8:03 PM
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firefly is right on. Snake dike wouldn't be the same if it was sport bolted. Realizing there are long run outs in advance is the necessary safety factor. If you're not comfortable with that fact, you don't belong on the route.
That said, I do support re bolting where bad or missing original bolts exist.
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alpine_monk
Oct 17, 2005, 8:28 PM
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to the OP: if this is a troll, congradulations. if this is not a troll I strongly suggest you take some time to seriously consider the sport you have chosen to get involved with. you mention that you "just want to be safe". there are now many climbing venues in which you can do that. a gym, or Rifle (same thing really). so, if you want to be safe, climb in safe climbing environment. their is nothing wrong with this, but it DOES NOT include snake dike. evaluate your life and decide why you climb and what you want from it. let the conclusions you come to dictate what kind of climbs you do. for now I suggest you stay in the gym, wear Eddie Bower, and keep driving your honda element back and forth from the grocery market. when you are ready to climb a route like snake dike, you will not need to ask such question.
Cheers, Dorian
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firstmatetickles
Oct 17, 2005, 9:00 PM
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snake dike is only scary before you do it. You here about run outs and how long they are and you're like oh no. But then when you actually climb it it's so mindless that you don't even get scared after like a hundred foot run out. You can climb it so easily that you're already clipped before you realize you ran out a ton. Basically people saying more clips are needed just haven't climbed it yet and don't realize how unneccessary that would be. But whatever
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glowering
Oct 17, 2005, 10:15 PM
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I spoke with Steve Roper at a slideshow a while back. He didn't do the first ascent but had permission from the first ascenders to add bolts (so he could authorize adding more bolts). He said his fingers and arms began to throb from all the hand drilling. He wished he had the endurance of Warren Harding to be able to put up a long line of bolts. He thought the color coded bolts were a great idea and didn't see why there would be a problem with them.
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the_dude
Oct 17, 2005, 11:04 PM
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Um, you can also tie off a chicken head about every 2 feet on the dike if it makes you feel safer.
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alpine_monk
Oct 17, 2005, 11:09 PM
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I poo'd on this thread
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glowering
Oct 18, 2005, 4:38 PM
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I like the idea of the removable bolts, that will save money over buying regular bolts. What size is best?
Since this will take a lot of time we are planning on rap bolting it over a couple of days. The only problem is the top anchor is not bolted and we don't want to leave gear there, so we'll probably add another bolted anchor at the top, which will be nice because then you will be able to rap the route instead of having to hike all the way up the slabs to the top, it's not like you'd be missing much not summiting.
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renohandjams
Oct 18, 2005, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: I guess you could add bolts, but on 5.4? 5.5? The crux is protected and after that it's as close to a ladder that you can naturally get. basically you only need bolts at the belays. Has there ever been anyone who took a fall once they got to the dike? I'd be surprised. |
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scrapedape
Oct 18, 2005, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: again something for me to poop on, but alas, no poop today :P So many posts, so little poop. |
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glowering
Oct 19, 2005, 4:23 PM
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Ok, I'm not the best troll, but I did catch a few.
I recycled the color coded bolts troll bait from supertopo. But no threats of violence here at rc.com, so I guess the ethics police on this site are more reasonable.
What's funny/sad is a couple people though it was a good idea.
Yosemite jumped right in with the troll:
In reply to: Hard core elitist sponsored climbers could demonstrate their stuff by using the FA-sanctioned retrobolts on this historic 5.7 route.
:lol:
Rap bolting Snake Dike? Steve Roper wishing he could drill bolts like Warren Harding? No comments?... At least I make myself laugh.
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