|
asandh
Oct 21, 2005, 6:18 PM
Post #1 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
markd
Oct 21, 2005, 6:32 PM
Post #2 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2002
Posts: 147
|
there is clear directions written up for this area in climbing #238(April 05).
also, i believe directions were originally posted on this site, but some locals were not happy about it, which i can understand.
|
|
|
|
|
asandh
Oct 21, 2005, 6:43 PM
Post #3 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 788
|
:)
|
|
|
|
|
markd
Oct 21, 2005, 6:52 PM
Post #4 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2002
Posts: 147
|
i agree!
i don't think so much unorganized info should be floating around the web on such a pristine area either. the gridbolting could get out of hand at shuteye!
when i posted my pics of the area, i posted them under "high sierra". this way people would know what's out there if they only looked.
|
|
|
|
|
thrmaln
Oct 22, 2005, 6:45 PM
Post #5 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2005
Posts: 160
|
I just spent about an hour or so drooling over the photos as well as the route information. It looks like an amazing place. Now I need to find my april 05 mag, order a wheelbarrow full of bolts and anchors, bring my generator and bolt the shit out of this place! Polish all the the bolts and hangers so they glisten in the sun to all the 747's flying above. Just Kidding! It looks like most of the routes are just outside my ability at the moment, so maybe I'll visit (sans bolts) in the future.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Oct 22, 2005, 6:54 PM
Post #6 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Did you try this?
Just curious.
|
|
|
|
|
socalbolter
Oct 25, 2005, 10:57 PM
Post #7 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 796
|
First off, I'm not a local.
I drive about 6 hours to get to Shuteye.
That said, I spent over 20 days there this summer, climbing established routes and adding new routes. Also taking a few photos.
When I would come home from my trips I would post route info in the hopes that others would be able to enjoy the place as well.
My friend (who lives up there) added a ton of area info on this site (including directions) only to be asked by the locals to remove directions. I also think it's hypocritical for them to ask for info on our new routes in one breath and then tell us not to share info on the area or their routes in the next.
The climbing world has always been a petty place, full of closely guarded "secrets." I guess in the locals' minds Shuteye is one of those secrets. I for one think their attitude and sense of possession is a real shame. Shuteye is a huge area that is home to dozens of major formations and many, many smaller formations. This place could be home to hundreds of climbers without it ever seeming crowded.
Take the time to search out the info you need and visit. You won't regret it.
|
|
|
|
|
fng
Oct 26, 2005, 12:10 AM
Post #8 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 85
|
All hail Socalbolter. I climbing with him a couple weeks ago and the man is a stud. He did trail work and bolted all day, establishing one of the best walls I've been on, then has me belay him on a .12c. STUD!!
As far as bolting, it was some of the best bolt placement I've have seen. Bolt nicely spaced on steep sh*t.
I am a local and have recently found Shuteye through "sierraclimber', also a stud. The place is unbelievable with unbelievable potential. The drive is one hour from Oakhurst and 5 formations within a 5 to 15 walk. Other are a bit further but it is not as screwed up as most people report. I think they are trying to scare people off.
If you want to go and I am able I will show you where it's at. I would love more people to put up more routes for me to climb.
|
|
|
|
|
alter_nate
Oct 26, 2005, 12:25 AM
Post #9 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2005
Posts: 30
|
Hi Louie,
Likewise, I am no local. And I'm also a nobody in terms of the microscopic Shuteye "scene", if one even exists. I've climbed in the region for 10+ years. I spent 7 precious days climbing in Southern Yosemite this year and savored every minute. I can understand your desire to share great routes. It's one of the joys of climbing. On the other hand, I do empathize with the following statement:
"In certain areas, an open conspiracy of climbers will keep a guidebook from
ever appearing. I'm not trying to protect the area, I'm trying to protect the
experience, the exploration, which is as essential to the wilderness experience
as the climbing is. This thing about people getting the best out of the time
that they put in is one of the places where I stop. Obviously, you're going to
spend more time stumbling around, yet on the other hand, it seems to me, one of
the characteristics of Alpinism is exploration; and the more of that there is
around, potentially, then the more area there is to create in. If you write a
guidebook you've eliminated the unknown. In large degree wilderness consists of
the unknown, maybe as much as it does in land without roads." --Doug Robinson
(1974)
Some may view the lack of sharing as selfish. But what is right for the area? I don't know the answer, but you said yourself that it's definitelly not the typical roadside sport climbing destination. There's something there for everyone who visits - from long trad routes to runout moderates from the 70s to fun and serious clip ups. A very unique balance, and I really hope it can remain so.
And BTW, really great pictures.
|
|
|
|
|
boltdude
Oct 26, 2005, 12:35 AM
Post #10 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2002
Posts: 685
|
Quoting Doug Robinson on wilderness and savoring adventure and exploration -
at an area where most of the new routes going in are rap-bolted sport routes?
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Good one...
|
|
|
|
|
josephgdawson
Oct 26, 2005, 1:07 AM
Post #11 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 303
|
Fuck elitist locals, I'll post directions right here as soon as I find them. What else is the net good for if not for democratizing information? Climbers are not the only elitists who get upset and whine when they lose control of information, all sorts of elitists whine about it.
|
|
|
|
|
yosemite
Oct 26, 2005, 1:51 AM
Post #12 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 331
|
On one hand, we have people screaming about respecting local ethics, styles and values. On the other, some people think they have a right to know everything about an area.
The local consensus, as far as I can tell, is to go climb and not hype the area. The recent postings are a bit like being "a little pregnant." You can either post up or shut up, but not both.
FYI.... It’s a bit north of Porterville.
Greg,
I miss your point. Notwithstanding Socalbolter's recent hyping of the area, I don't see any contradiction between rap bolting and not disseminating route info if the latter is the long standing local custom. I also realize that the days of solitude in this part of the world are limited.
Gene
|
|
|
|
|
fng
Oct 26, 2005, 2:24 AM
Post #13 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 85
|
alter_nate,
I agree with what you said totally. The only thing is that Shuteye has access that seems to make it more of a drive up location than an Alpine area. Unless I'm off, which is very possible, Alpine is not really the elevation but rather the location. Something with a serious hike where you camp out of your pack and have to haul everything in on your back.
Shuteye isn't like that. You can drive up to that first camp site with a high clearance 2wd and be climbing in within 15 min. Some of the Rock has a definite hike and I think those areas will remain quiet even if the secret gets out, similar to the outer rocks in Yosemite, Courtright, Etc. The crowds always go to the easy and close approaches.
I am excited to see development in the area and hope it continues. There is so much rock and untouched potential. It would be a shame others couldn't share in the experience.
***On the flip side I love climbing and not seeing another soul the whole trip. I don't climb Yosemite very often because there are so many people and I got really turned off the first time there were four parties on the climb I was on. Now I climb other areas, some never to be written about by me, where I see no one. But I still enjoy climbing Yosemite on occasion. Anyone who wants to find isolation and solitude need only explore for new areas especially here in the Sierras.
|
|
|
|
|
boltdude
Oct 26, 2005, 2:24 AM
Post #14 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2002
Posts: 685
|
In reply to: I don't see any contradiction between rap bolting and not disseminating route info
Doug's comments are about keeping an area secret to preserve adventure.
Many new routes at shuteye are grid-bolted rap bolting - the essence of eliminating adventure in climbing. A few people taking up a ton of climbing terrain in no time at all, with ground-up opportunities fading fast on at least some of the crags.
So the contradiction in using Doug's comments to keep an area secret while those keeping it secret are rap-grid-bolting should be pretty obvious...
And even if the routes were all going in ground-up, doing so many so quickly robs other folks of the chance to do those routes. "Leave it for future climbers" - Ron Kauk, overheard after TRing a sicko prominent arete in Yosemite in '95 or so.
Greg
PS I'm not really annoyed or anything, I'm sure I'll have a lot of fun on Louie's lines, it's just that the use of the quote seemed to me to be disrespectful of one of the pioneers of clean climbing in the US.
|
|
|
|
|
alter_nate
Oct 26, 2005, 5:48 AM
Post #15 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2005
Posts: 30
|
I meant no disrespect to Doug at all - infact, it's the exact opposite. I would hope there is more "clean" climbing going on at Shuteye than there may be - or at least the slower rate of development to which it is often synonymous. Ultimately it matters less to me personally how the route was put up than that the rock doesn't get unneccesarily overdeveloped, and that good natural lines aren't swallowed up in bolts. Yes, leave something for future generations, by all means! There's a lot of rock to go around, and not a lot of climbers.
Also, I don't interpret Doug's statement to be about clean climbing as much as preserving the adventure of an area. Sure "adventure" means different things to different people, but it's not just about the climbing itself. Much of it lies in the unknown and the mystery - rather than having everything handed to you on a silver platter. And even though Shuteye is not an alpine setting, most who have been there would agree it feels like wilderness.
By contributing to the recent article, Doug obviously has a soft spot for the place.
I appreciate your insight Greg. I'll shut up now.
|
|
|
|
|
markd
Oct 26, 2005, 7:11 PM
Post #16 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2002
Posts: 147
|
socalbolter and sierraclimber
i understand and respect putting up new routes as i do plenty myself. what i don't understand is why would so many new routes get put so fast and in such close proximity of each other?
the new routes listed are stacked right on top of each other.
|
|
|
|
|
hasbeen
Oct 26, 2005, 9:02 PM
Post #17 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2003
Posts: 543
|
i've been around this local/non-local should we/should we not gibberish forever. what i want to know is who is doing all the complaining, and why?
it's got to be people who want to read about climbing, not those who actually go climbing. does lack of a "guide" keep anyone from climbing anywhere if they really want to? are there people out that that would love to check out shuteye but truly believe that they couldn't find it with a little fortitude? c'mon!
okay, there are. but these people aren't really climbers. they're tourists n' shit. or perhaps their people who, i dunno, like to banter on sites like this. a climber could find it by doing a bit of homework. have climbers really become this lazy or are they just looking for something new to bicker about?
if you can't find ballpark directions to this area based on the information given, the pics, and 15 minutes of reading maps and putting two and two together, you should not be allowed to frggin' climb.
|
|
|
|
|
socalbolter
Oct 26, 2005, 11:16 PM
Post #18 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 796
|
MARKD wrote:
In reply to: socalbolter and sierraclimber i understand and respect putting up new routes as i do plenty myself. what i don't understand is why would so many new routes get put so fast and in such close proximity of each other? the new routes listed are stacked right on top of each other.
OK, so if I understand this correctly when I see an amazing wall, full of wonderful climbing options, that instead of enjoying all that the wall has to offer, I should pace myself by not climbing too many in the same visit? How long should I allow between routes? One per trip? Two per trip? I think I've averaged about one new route per day and a half that I've been there. Is that too many?
As for the spacing of the routes, all you're seeing here is the info and photographs that I've posted. For the record, the routes shown on my photos and topos are not all new routes. Also, the other formations have established routes with the same proximity to each other. What you see here is a continuation of the development patterns found on High Eagle, The Aerie, Electric Eagle, Queens Throne, Catnap, etc.
I guess it's easy to find fault when sitting at your computer. Maybe the naysayers should go to Shuteye and climb the routes before they comment. They might just enjoy themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
socalbolter
Oct 26, 2005, 11:18 PM
Post #19 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 796
|
MARKD wrote:
In reply to: socalbolter and sierraclimber i understand and respect putting up new routes as i do plenty myself. what i don't understand is why would so many new routes get put so fast and in such close proximity of each other? the new routes listed are stacked right on top of each other.
OK, so if I understand this correctly when I see an amazing wall, full of wonderful climbing options, that instead of enjoying all that the wall has to offer, I should pace myself by not climbing too many in the same visit? How long should I allow between routes? One per trip? Two per trip? I think I've averaged about one new route per day and a half that I've been there. Is that too many?
As for the spacing of the routes, all you're seeing here is the info and photographs that I've posted. For the record, the routes shown on my photos and topos are not all new routes. Also, the other formations have established routes with the same proximity to each other. What you see here is a continuation of the development patterns found on High Eagle, The Aerie, Electric Eagle, Queens Throne, Catnap, etc.
I guess it's easy to find fault when sitting at your computer. Maybe the naysayers should go to Shuteye and climb the routes before they comment. They might just enjoy yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
fng
Oct 27, 2005, 12:03 AM
Post #20 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 85
|
I climbed some of the routes at Shangri-La. The routes are not way spread out like some locations but this wall is not like other places. The wall is vertical to overhanging and very featured. Each routes is totally different. I for one am glad to have a wall like this near where I live. I can crank out a bunch of climbing on excellent routes. They are only 1/2 pitch routes anyway.
It is not like Socalbolter and Sierraclimber went to a huge dome and put up routes all over the dam thing every ten feet. They created an awesome sport wall. If you want to climb a route or a route not so close to other routes, go to another dome or rock. There is everything from multi pitch trad to short sport. Take your pick.
|
|
|
|
|
markd
Oct 27, 2005, 12:05 AM
Post #21 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2002
Posts: 147
|
In reply to: MARKD wrote: In reply to: socalbolter and sierraclimber i understand and respect putting up new routes as i do plenty myself. what i don't understand is why would so many new routes get put so fast and in such close proximity of each other? the new routes listed are stacked right on top of each other. OK, so if I understand this correctly when I see an amazing wall, full of wonderful climbing options, that instead of enjoying all that the wall has to offer, I should pace myself by not climbing too many in the same visit? How long should I allow between routes? One per trip? Two per trip? I think I've averaged about one new route per day and a half that I've been there. Is that too many? As for the spacing of the routes, all you're seeing here is the info and photographs that I've posted. For the record, the routes shown on my photos and topos are not all new routes. Also, the other formations have established routes with the same proximity to each other. What you see here is a continuation of the development patterns found on High Eagle, The Aerie, Electric Eagle, Queens Throne, Catnap, etc. I guess it's easy to find fault when sitting at your computer. Maybe the naysayers should go to Shuteye and climb the routes before they comment. They might just enjoy themselves.
what i'm trying to say is, if there is so much rock everywhere, why would you put a bunch of routes right next to each? it's not smith rock! i just don't know why a wall would have to have so many routes. i'm not attacking you, i'm asking politely.
i don't think the history of the place overall for the last 30 plus years includes so much grid bolting. it seems like you could walk around a little bit and do a route here and there, not just conquer a wall add put as many routes as possible on it.
for the record, i have been their, and my first time wasn't this year!
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Oct 27, 2005, 12:12 AM
Post #22 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
The first route I did on Shuteye was on Gray Eagle Dome, 1989. I've climbed many of the major formations and have logged time on remote things like Balloon Dome and bouldering on the ridge after the slab where all the pussy SUV's turn around. Done old school Robbins routes on Queens Throne and tame but hard Spencer clipups at Fresno Dome.
I think its just fine that these guys are developing a sport wall. I think its even better they are making strangers aware of them. I know where these routes are and I can find them when I choose. If any of you lack the simple skills to find a well documented crag then you really and truly don't belong there.
To sierra and socalbolters....
ironically (or not, as I know you will identify with the following), I'm not all that motivated to come down there and try your routes. 2 reasons... one, they are too hard for me, lol! Well done. But more importantly,
We have our own projects to work on. I'd druther spend my time on my projects than yours, no offence!
Now if you saw fit to open and publish a few new III's and IV's... then I'd be down for a visit!
Cheers and thanks for keeping me thinking of Mammoth Pool country!
DMT
For the 'want something longer than 100' crowd' and especially for the 'one or two routes per face should suffice' team:
http://www.summitpost.org/....pl/mountain_id/5776
There is adventure a plenty to be had south of Yosemite, sport climbing on Shuteye Ridge notwithstanding.
|
|
|
|
|
socalbolter
Oct 27, 2005, 12:57 AM
Post #23 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 796
|
Don't worry markd, I'm not seeing this as an attack. I simply don't understand your point. I've got extremely thick skin and can handle a jab or two (intentional or not).
Given your recent post, I gather I should wander from formation to formation and do a route here and another there. Why? Shangri La is very near to the climbers' camp and is the wall that motivated me the most. Why not focus on it? Others are motivated by different formations and they are climbing and bolting on those formations. Their preference and choice. Shangri La was mine. That said, you should know that it is not the only wall I've bolted in Shuteye. I've added routes to six different formations there.
You mentioned that you'd been there before. No doubt you've climbed on High Eagle Dome, where there are just as many routes as on Shangri La, and in the same width of cliff? Or maybe on the Aerie, just downhill from High Eagle where the same density exists?
Like I said, if I feel inspired to add routes and spend my time and $ doing so, why should I not climb what appeals to me?
Shangri La is not the only sport wall in Shuteye, it's just one of the best.
|
|
|
|
|
alter_nate
Oct 27, 2005, 1:16 AM
Post #24 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2005
Posts: 30
|
Nice addition so summitpost Dingus! I knew you were up to something by contacting Mike Graber. And I was wondering when someone with firsthand knowledge was finally going to post up that giant Balloon. FYI, I don't know when you were last there, but there are now 20+ new 1,000 ft. sport routes on the west face. I'd recommend the helicopter approach. Enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
ikellen
Nov 6, 2005, 12:46 AM
Post #25 of 47
(17095 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 393
|
One question, and I say this not as a personal attack, but as something I noticed: In the original Rock and Ice article about Shuteye Pass, Doug Robinson talked about a bolting ethic similar to the original bolting ethics in Tuolumne (long runouts, bolts only where needed). I read the article and decided that its another sierra area with sierra bolting ethics. Now I come back months later and see the place bolted like a sport crag. What happened to the original ethic, and why did it change? I don't mean this as a jab neccesarily, but if there is already shaky relations with locals, changing the entire bolting ethic of the area can't help things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
