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tweeker
Oct 26, 2005, 7:52 AM
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I would like to know the opinion of others on manufacturing? Some of the most famous and sought after routes are chipped, la rose and the vampire, chouca, the nose, etc. What are you going to do when faced with the temptation?
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t-dog
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Oct 26, 2005, 8:04 AM
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Don't.
Many routes are chipped out there, but it's not a reason to keep doing it. Lead by example and don't manufacture holds! :evil:
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verticon
Oct 26, 2005, 10:05 AM
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There's a lot of rock out there and not all of it should be climbable (for now, at least). Go find a route you can climb without chipping and leave what you can't climb to those who can. If you chip, sooner or later some climber will send it without your @#$% chipped hold. I find such holds all the time on older routes and it drives me mad to see that they were not necessary. If it was, I'd rap down the route rather than use the darn hold !
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overlord
Oct 26, 2005, 10:34 AM
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ill just leave it alone.
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twaikker
Oct 31, 2005, 8:39 PM
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this is what i think, if you are a good climber (ie better than .13c at least) and you see a featureless wall but there are small cracks and edges that are too small for even finger nails to attatch to, then yes i say you can manipulate these small features and make them just big enough for use, and hopefully you can be delicate enough to not butcher the rock and look like a complete asswhole, but chipping actual holes into rock, now thats just wrong, take whats there if you have to, but dont make a feature on just smooth rock
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neuroshock
Oct 31, 2005, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: this is what i think, if you are a good climber (ie better than .13c at least) and you see a featureless wall but there are small cracks and edges that are too small for even finger nails to attatch to, then yes i say you can manipulate these small features and make them just big enough for use, and hopefully you can be delicate enough to not butcher the rock and look like a complete asswhole, but chipping actual holes into rock, now thats just wrong, take whats there if you have to, but dont make a feature on just smooth rock
just because we like to climb rock doesn't mean that "every" line needs to be climbed/climbable. leave it be and go find/do a route elsewhere.
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rocamosca
Oct 31, 2005, 8:50 PM
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If you can't climb it, then don't.
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fluxus
Oct 31, 2005, 9:20 PM
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we just had this discussion on another thread until it was beaten into the ground by an idiot. . . .
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double
Oct 31, 2005, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: this is what i think, if you are a good climber (ie better than .13c at least) and you see a featureless wall but there are small cracks and edges that are too small for even finger nails to attatch to, then yes i say you can manipulate these small features and make them just big enough for use, and hopefully you can be delicate enough to not butcher the rock and look like a complete asswhole, but chipping actual holes into rock, now thats just wrong, take whats there if you have to, but dont make a feature on just smooth rock
Bryan
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addiroids
Oct 31, 2005, 9:36 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: this is what i think, if you are a good climber (ie better than .13c at least) and you see a featureless wall but there are small cracks and edges that are too small for even finger nails to attatch to, then yes i say you can manipulate these small features and make them just big enough for use, and hopefully you can be delicate enough to not butcher the rock and look like a complete asswhole, but chipping actual holes into rock, now thats just wrong, take whats there if you have to, but dont make a feature on just smooth rock So you'd modify an aid route to climb it free? Seems pretty similar to bolting a trad route. Bryan
Honestly I doubt that guy even knows what an aid route is.
Don't chip.
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mingleefu
Oct 31, 2005, 9:57 PM
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In reply to: Some of the most famous and sought after routes are chipped, la rose and the vampire, chouca, the nose, etc.
The Nose? I know it's been altered pretty significantly by the use of Pitons according to common practice of the day, but I wasn't aware it had been "chipped". What pitches have been altered specifically to facilitate free-climbing? Some more than others?
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twaikker
Nov 1, 2005, 7:37 PM
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its so sad that a person cant write one damn thing on this cite and have some insacure f u c k head spew out some "ethics" and pretend he is the God's gift to the climbing community..." Honestly I doubt that guy even knows what an aid route is." your right, i have no idea what it is (A1 is that harder than A5 5.12d?) damn im such a noob its sad.....let me drop it like this on you addiroids (yeah nice name, are you on the juice?) im not saying smash a couple pitons and make nasty scars on the rock, your a f u c k ing idiot, you obviously didnt read and comprehend what i was even talking about, if a rock face is only 30-45 feet in height, why the f u c k would you aid climb it?
"hey roids i know this sick A4, and i think i will take us 2 weeks to climb it"
that would be so stupid to even consider aiding a sport route length climb. and if you read what i wrote you would see that pitons would butcher the rock, s h i t at your reasoning, bringing a toothbrush with me when i climb is a sin
"oh god, did you see that guy, he cleaned off that handhold thats so f u c k e d up, that drops the grade from 5.12c to 5.12b++"
think before you s h i t words out your mouth roid boy
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vegastradguy
Nov 1, 2005, 7:45 PM
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In reply to: its so sad that a person cant write one damn thing on this cite and have some insacure f u c k head spew out some "ethics" and pretend he is the God's gift to the climbing community..." Honestly I doubt that guy even knows what an aid route is." your right, i have no idea what it is (A1 is that harder than A5 5.12d?) damn im such a noob its sad.....let me drop it like this on you addiroids (yeah nice name, are you on the juice?) im not saying smash a couple pitons and make nasty scars on the rock, your a f u c k ing idiot, you obviously didnt read and comprehend what i was even talking about, if a rock face is only 30-45 feet in height, why the f u c k would you aid climb it? "hey roids i know this sick A4, and i think i will take us 2 weeks to climb it" that would be so stupid to even consider aiding a sport route length climb. and if you read what i wrote you would see that pitons would butcher the rock, s h i t at your reasoning, bringing a toothbrush with me when i climb is a sin "oh god, did you see that guy, he cleaned off that handhold thats so f u c k e d up, that drops the grade from 5.12c to 5.12b++" think before you s h i t words out your mouth roid boy
i tried to read this, but your inability to spell correctly, use correct grammar, and general stupidity stopped me in my tracks.
that said, chipping is bringing the rock down to your level- no matter how impossible that rock may seem. better to try and bring yourself up to its level.
i also was under the impression that chipping, while it had its supporters in the past, has generally become something the climbing community as a whole rejects.
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olderic
Nov 1, 2005, 7:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Some of the most famous and sought after routes are chipped, la rose and the vampire, chouca, the nose, etc. The Nose? I know it's been altered pretty significantly by the use of Pitons according to common practice of the day, but I wasn't aware it had been "chipped". What pitches have been altered specifically to facilitate free-climbing? Some more than others?
Jardine traverse - avoids the King Swing. It is the line followed in all the free ascents.
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twaikker
Nov 2, 2005, 1:16 AM
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and i guess you vegastradguy have a Ph.D in english. why is it whenever sh*t goes down on this board, people like you offer nothing to it, except how something is misspelled or there is a grammatical error, big f u c k i n g deal, in a nutshell your as gay as two guys f u c k i n g....and why are you trying to imply that i chip climbs and bring them to my level, i gave an opinion for what i think is the only exceptible reason for manipulating a rock face...again, if in the future someone happens to be climbing 5.19 or V21, and they see a beautiful 30-45 foot rock face, that is impossible, but they would like to be on it (and im not talking that they want to do it aid style) how the hell are they going to bring themselves up to the rocks level if the rocks level is unclimbable? your an idiot, your ethics toward rockclimbing remind me of the type of people that love abortion and hate the death penalty....save the whales, but drive sh*ty gas milage $60 thousand dollar SUVs.....save the redwoods, but think the government needs to put a 4 lane highway leading into the meadows below El Cap.....
you claim that you tried to read what i wrote, yet you were stopped in your tracks....if that is true then how can you even say that my opinion is dumb.....that would be like me saying the book "da vinci code" sucks even though i have never read it......the more i think about it the more i realize you dont even climb, you just read rock and ice (probably b i t c h about some of the articles and how amature the writers skills are), climbing, and all the garbage that this cite provides.
in conclusion, your an egotistcal, edicated a s s hole, that cant get out of the 5.9 skill level, listens to hootie and the blowfish, favorite climber is ivan greene (that dude is soo gay) who plays their own song during their part in dosage 2?, and gets mad at people who can think for themselves.
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dingus
Nov 2, 2005, 1:21 AM
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Hmmm, ever read Farenheit 451?
DMT
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vegastradguy
Nov 2, 2005, 1:23 AM
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In reply to: and i guess you vegastradguy have a Ph.D in english.
now that you mention it, i am actually working on my Masters in English.
In reply to: why is it whenever sh*t goes down on this board, people like you offer nothing to it, except how something is misspelled or there is a grammatical error
on the contrary, i offered my opinion on the matter after i commented on your inability to express yourself coherently.
and, as to the comment on your spelling and grammar- don't expect people to take anything you say seriously if you cannot express yourself intelligently.
In reply to: and why are you trying to imply that i chip climbs and bring them to my level,
i did nothing of the sort. perhaps you should try reading my post again.
In reply to: if in the future someone happens to be climbing 5.19 or V21, and they see a beautiful 30-45 foot rock face, that is impossible, but they would like to be on it (and im not talking that they want to do it aid style) how the hell are they going to bring themselves up to the rocks level if the rocks level is unclimbable?
they train harder and maybe they'll climb it one day and maybe they won't. but if they chip it, then they may be robbing someone else in the future of a beautiful nature line that is within that person's ability.
In reply to: your an egotistcal, edicated a s s hole, that cant get out of the 5.9 skill level, listens to hootie and the blowfish, favorite climber is ivan greene (that dude is soo gay) who plays their own song during their part in dosage 2?, and gets mad at people who can think for themselves.
this part is just funny- i wanted to post it again so others could have an extra laugh.
but i have to ask.....what is an 'edicated a s s hole'?
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jt512
Nov 2, 2005, 1:30 AM
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In reply to: and i guess you vegastradguy have a Ph.D in english. why is it whenever sh*t goes down on this board, people like you offer nothing to it, except how something is misspelled or there is a grammatical error, big f u c k i n g deal, in a nutshell your as gay as two guys f u c k i n g....
You're as gay.
-Jay
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dingus
Nov 2, 2005, 1:36 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: in a nutshell your as gay as two guys f u c k i n g.... as gay. -Jay
That reminds me of the old racist joke... (how did I get my name?)
"Why do you ask, Two Dogs Fucking?"
DMT
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twaikker
Nov 2, 2005, 1:53 AM
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well well, it seems like you can only post if you are working on your masters in english...how gay is that? if i was concerned with my grammer and spelling errors i would use spell check, f u c k i n g tool, but since i realy dont give a s h i t, i wont....
and you never said i was bring the rock down to my level....hmm i think you better read your own post and think before you spew s h i t out your mouth again..never mind i will do it for you
vegastradguy:
"that said, chipping is bringing the rock down to your level- no matter how impossible that rock may seem. better to try and bring yourself up to its level."
Farenheit 451, good book, almost prophetic i think..a lot of things in that book are almost reality now days.
and again and i dont even know how you guys seem to keep missing this, if the climb is UNCLIMBABLE, how the hell would someone be robbing it for some "future" badass...you might be able to critique the written word, but as far as your reasoning and comprehension skills you blow...your friends must get real annoyed when you try to think for them, and tell them how their english is terrible.....im so glad i can think for myself
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bensnyder
Nov 2, 2005, 2:21 AM
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In reply to: its so sad that a person cant write one damn thing on this cite and have some insacure f u c k head spew out some "ethics" and pretend he is the God's gift to the climbing community..." Honestly I doubt that guy even knows what an aid route is." your right, i have no idea what it is (A1 is that harder than A5 5.12d?) damn im such a noob its sad.....let me drop it like this on you addiroids (yeah nice name, are you on the juice?) im not saying smash a couple pitons and make nasty scars on the rock, your a f u c k ing idiot, you obviously didnt read and comprehend what i was even talking about, if a rock face is only 30-45 feet in height, why the f u c k would you aid climb it? "hey roids i know this sick A4, and i think i will take us 2 weeks to climb it" that would be so stupid to even consider aiding a sport route length climb. and if you read what i wrote you would see that pitons would butcher the rock, s h i t at your reasoning, bringing a toothbrush with me when i climb is a sin "oh god, did you see that guy, he cleaned off that handhold thats so f u c k e d up, that drops the grade from 5.12c to 5.12b++" think before you s h i t words out your mouth roid boy
At first, I couldn't choose which of your brilliant 'thoughts' to quote, but this one is probably the stupidest...
Twaikker, you need to realize just how you are coming off - as an arrogant asshole. We all (including myself) have been arrogant to certain degrees on this website, but you take this to a whole new level. All said, your posts in this forum leave a bad taste in all of our mouthes.
In my limited experience as a climber, I have learned that the best climbers are the quietest talkers. With that in mind, I have to guess that you are reasonably new to this game; still, the the humbling process is apparently very slow in your case. Accepting that there are people out there whose oppinions are more informed than your own is clearly difficult for you, but it needs to happen. In fact, In this forum alone, I am betting nearly everybody short of myself has more experience than you.
Now to disecting your posts:
In reply to: this is what i think, if you are a good climber (ie better than .13c at least) and you see a featureless wall but there are small cracks and edges that are too small for even finger nails to attatch to, then yes i say you can manipulate these small features and make them just big enough for use, and hopefully you can be delicate enough to not butcher the rock and look like a complete asswhole, but chipping actual holes into rock, now thats just wrong, take whats there if you have to, but dont make a feature on just smooth rock
First off, are you a 13c climber? No? What entitles you to this oppinion then? If you were a 13c climber, chances are you would have enough experience and sense to realize that what you are saying right here is total bull. In fact, no self respecting climber whatsoevery would say something like this, regardless of skill/experience.
In reply to: its so sad that a person cant write one damn thing on this cite and have some insacure f u c k head spew out some "ethics" and pretend he is the God's gift to the climbing community..."
Its so sad that a person can't write one damn thing on this site and not have some insecure fuck head spew out some uninformed bullshit and pretend he is God's gift to the climbing community...people like you ruin the atmosphere of RC.com
In reply to: in conclusion, your an egotistcal, edicated a s s hole, that cant get out of the 5.9 skill level, listens to hootie and the blowfish, favorite climber is ivan greene (that dude is soo gay) who plays their own song during their part in dosage 2?, and gets mad at people who can think for themselves.
Ironic huh? You can replace educated with uneducated, and most of that post could be used to blast you...
In reply to: Farenheit 451, good book, almost prophetic i think..a lot of things in that book are almost reality now days.
Is this your sad attempt to show to us that you read a book? I can't really see any other reason why you would put this in with the rest of your post...anyways - flame on douchebag!
Or, rather, get out and climb so we don't have to listen to your BS!
P.S. chip anything and we'll kill you...
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bensnyder
Nov 2, 2005, 2:22 AM
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dbl post
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neuroshock
Nov 2, 2005, 2:24 AM
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twaikker, for starters your consciously obscuring your excessive use of profanity from the site's filters makes me suspect of your maturity and judgement. that, and most people can intelligently get by in a debate without resorting to those words in an ineffectual manner.
secondly,
In reply to: and again and i dont even know how you guys seem to keep missing this, if the climb is UNCLIMBABLE, how the hell would someone be robbing it for some "future" badass
In reply to: im so glad i can think for myself
..like an ass, man. really.
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rockguide
Nov 2, 2005, 2:43 AM
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Chip holds when the rock is unclimbable?
When Robbins put up the "open book" in the late 50s it was graded 5.9 - the top of the grading scale. The pinnacle of human achievement. Then someone trained harder, got better, and climbed something harder - and blew the lid off of the yds grading scale. 5.15 existed in the 50s, but nobody could see it. 5.19 exists now, but we cannot see it.
We have no idea what the next generation can hang on to. Not a clue. Be amazed. "yeah, but there are no holds".
I especially loved the attack on aid - something about "we are talking about a 40 foot sport route here - who would aid that" A couple of climbing areas around here have cool routes with one or two points of aid - pull on a draw. Not something you can put on a resume to a sponsor, but a way past a blank spot for an otherwise cool line. Eventually some of those routes go free and become 5.10a routes with one move of 5.12+ . Yeah, classic. I'll still pull on the draw and do the good moves.
One local guy had the odd idea of bolting a hold on a route (named, of course, "Pandora"). It was on a very out of the way crag so nobody apart from a small crew saw it. It was described as a point of aid. Eventually someone found their way through the move and swapped the hold out for a hanger. Locals have since disavowed that practice and all chipping. But it still happens.
oh, and about certain trolls. You can wrestle with pigs but you will both get covered with barnyard slime. Difference is, the pig likes it.
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jt512
Nov 2, 2005, 2:45 AM
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In reply to: twaikker, for starters your consciously obscuring your excessive use of profanity from the site's filters makes me suspect of your maturity and judgement. that, and most people can intelligently get by in a debate without resorting to those words in an ineffectual manner.
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker.
-Jay
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