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thorne
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Nov 15, 2005, 2:57 PM
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In reply to: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez accused Mexican leader Vicente Fox of being a "puppy" of President Bush and said: "Don't mess with me, sir." Fox shot back on Monday that "we have dignity in this country" and demanded an apology. Now the two nations are withdrawing their ambassadors. http://www.breitbart.com/...11/14/D8DSL1Q84.html Anyone have some insights on this development?
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wjca
Nov 15, 2005, 3:14 PM
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Insult Presidente Fox will he? Well fuck that. Nobody kicks our dog and gets away with it. In 2004, Venezuela was the ninth top oil producer in the world and the fifth top oil exporter. I bet Chavez has some WMD, so I say we go down there and "find" them.
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dingus
Nov 15, 2005, 3:16 PM
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I think the odds of Chavez dying of old age are slim to none. DMT
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 15, 2005, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: Insult Presidente Fox will he? Well f--- that. Nobody kicks our dog and gets away with it. In 2004, Venezuela was the ninth top oil producer in the world and the fifth top oil exporter. I bet Chavez has some WMD, so I say we go down there and "find" them. Hahaha!! :lol: muther... :wink: Well, the truth is Fox is a moron. Everyone knows it, everyone acknowledges it. I´m not too familiar with the details (kind of sick of politics right now) but from what I´ve heard Fox went down to and created a mess when there was really no reason to. He was pushing a proposal for the ALCA (american trade agreement thing) that´s backed by the US and a lot of other countries, but opposed by Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela and a couple others. I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that (sin ánimo de ofender, disculpen si se lee mal), but I don´t believe he contribuited anything positive to a dumb situation. By virtue of his comments, that I don´t believe to be all THAT offensive (offensive yes, but not quite enough to recall your embassadors), he ignited a volatile situation. I don´t know all the details as I´ve already mentioned, but I don´t think this situation warranted such tension in the diplomatic relations between two countries (not that offending another head of state is ever ok...).
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thorne
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Nov 15, 2005, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: Well, the truth is Fox is a moron.... I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that It seems the Mexican people are undeserving of respect.
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rufusandcompany
Nov 15, 2005, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, the truth is Fox is a moron.... I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that It seems the Mexican people are undeserving of respect. Nice, Thorne. You really can be quite the asshat at times.
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thorne
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Nov 15, 2005, 7:45 PM
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I think you missed my point.
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wjca
Nov 15, 2005, 8:00 PM
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In reply to: I think you missed my point. There is no way rufus could actually misinterpret what someone else writes. No way. You must really be an asshat.
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rufusandcompany
Nov 15, 2005, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think you missed my point. There is no way rufus could actually misinterpret what someone else writes. No way. You must really be an asshat. The admiration sometimes overwhelmes me.
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 15, 2005, 10:31 PM
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2x
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 15, 2005, 10:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, the truth is Fox is a moron.... I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that It seems the Mexican people are undeserving of respect. I`ll be saving this quote, just in case. But I`ll give you the benefit of a doubt and just come out and tell you why I wrote that: I`m Mexican. I can say what I want about Vicente Fox.
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thorne
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Nov 16, 2005, 1:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Well, the truth is Fox is a moron.... I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that It seems the Mexican people are undeserving of respect. I`ll be saving this quote, just in case. But I`ll give you the benefit of a doubt and just come out and tell you why I wrote that: I`m Mexican. I can say what I want about Vicente Fox. Does this mean you'll refrain criticizing(sp?) Bush out of respect for US citizens? How about the citizens of North Korea? Zimbabwe?
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lagr01
Nov 16, 2005, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: I think the odds of Chavez dying of old age are slim to none. DMT I pray for that everyday.
In reply to: I won´t say what I think about Venezuela´s current president on a personal level because I have more respect for Venezuelans than that (sin ánimo de ofender, disculpen si se lee mal), but I don´t believe he contribuited anything positive to a dumb situation. By virtue of his comments, that I don´t believe to be all THAT offensive (offensive yes, but not quite enough to recall your embassadors), he ignited a volatile situation. Although the problem started when Chavez called Fox "Bush's Puppy", things were getting solved until last sunday when Chavez threatened Fox saying that he better leave him alone otherwise he'd end up screwed (not the exact words but basically the same meaning). BTW, feel free to insult Chavez, I do it anytime I read the news.
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shakylegs
Nov 16, 2005, 5:37 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I think the odds of Chavez dying of old age are slim to none. DMT I pray for that everyday. That's mighty Christian of you.
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mistymountainhop
Nov 16, 2005, 7:46 PM
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I seriously like mexican food better than venezuila food.
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squierbypetzl
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Nov 16, 2005, 8:10 PM
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In reply to: Does this mean you'll refrain criticizing(sp?) Bush out of respect for US citizens? How about the citizens of North Korea? Zimbabwe? If I feel like it, yes.
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vivalargo
Nov 17, 2005, 2:45 AM
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Chavez and Fox are in a classic macho standoff over nothing at all. But there are real problems in Venezuela, and not all of them are the gringo's fault. JL
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iltripp
Nov 17, 2005, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: Chavez and Fox are in a classic macho standoff over nothing at all. But there are real problems in Venezuela, and not all of them are the gringo's fault. JL Largo, what do you think of Chavez? I've heard such a wide range of opinions from the few Venezuelans I've talked to that I've never been sure who to believe. What's your take on the guy?
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vivalargo
Nov 17, 2005, 4:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Chavez and Fox are in a classic macho standoff over nothing at all. But there are real problems in Venezuela, and not all of them are the gringo's fault. JL Largo, what do you think of Chavez? I've heard such a wide range of opinions from the few Venezuelans I've talked to that I've never been sure who to believe. What's your take on the guy? That's like the hardest question in the world. For some--especially those who used to enjoy great privledge, and who were often tragically corrupt--Chavez is a blow hard narcissist and a buffoon. For others--especially the poor-as-dirt--Chavez is a Saint. I think Hugo Chavez is a little of both, or a lot of both. But his methods are lacking owing to a military orientation--and remember, "Military" in South America carries a totally different connotation than it does here, insofar as South American military outfits DON'T FIGHT WARS. They are basically heavily armed police agencies for the state, and with the military so in bed with those in power, the line dividing General and President is very fluid. I'm not so sure Chavez' policies are ever goning to pan out as advertised because he's scared off most everyone with any wherewithal. The economy is surviving principally on oil profits, not because of a sage business plan. I don't rally know what Chavez' "Bolivian Revolution" plan really is. Perhaps nobody does. I do know that a great leader brings factions together, rather than formenting the kind of drastic polarization that's going on today between the classes. To his credit, Chavez has woken up the political consciousness of a nation, and brought the crushng poverty problem into the light of day. Is he the man to right the ship? That's questionable in my mind, but not in the mind of my wife, who grew up poor and is a die-hard Chavista. So far he's done little to advance the self sufficiency of the poor (though he's generous with the hand outs), and at this rate he seems to be making a lot of folks even more dependent on the government. Tell you the truth I really don't know what to think. Most native Venezolanos either love him or hate him, and give you veru persuasive reasons for their feelings. Most of the past Presidentes have been crooks, but look at Bush. In other words I have very mixed feelings. JL
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iltripp
Nov 17, 2005, 4:46 AM
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I've keyed in on some of the polarized views in conversations I've had. Like you said, he's either a saint or a dictator. Hence my original confusion. Thanks for the interesting perspective. I've always been interested in south american politics and the many dramas. It's a very different world than ours. It'll be interesting to see what plays out down there. On that note, I wish I had the time/dinero to go check things out for myself. Living in venezuela for a spell would be quite an experience...
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12volt_man
Nov 17, 2005, 4:58 AM
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Regardless of the cause or true nature of the dispute it should be entertaining.
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kubi
Nov 17, 2005, 5:06 PM
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This is really sad. Chavez and Fox made such a cute couple. Any chance they'll get back together?
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lagr01
Nov 18, 2005, 3:04 AM
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In reply to: That's like the hardest question in the world. For some--especially those who used to enjoy great privledge, and who were often tragically corrupt--Chavez is a blow hard narcissist and a buffoon. Sorry, but that's a very shallow statement... I find it insulting actually. It's like saying that anyone that hates Bush is a fanatic leftist that hates the US. I've never been priviledged and no one in my family has. I'm not poor but my few belongings come from hard studying and working, and I do think that Chavez is a psychotic SOB. Somehow I can't enjoy seeing how my country starts looking more like Cuba everyday, seeing poverty growing with the highest oil prices in history, crime, violence and corruption higher than ever, seeing how the Government takes over ranches and companies... but hey maybe it's just me, maybe I should just relax and enjoy the revolution.
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rufusandcompany
Nov 18, 2005, 3:20 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: That's like the hardest question in the world. For some--especially those who used to enjoy great privledge, and who were often tragically corrupt--Chavez is a blow hard narcissist and a buffoon. Sorry, but that's a very shallow statement... I find it insulting actually. It's like saying that anyone that hates Bush is a fanatic leftist that hates the US. I've never been priviledged and no one in my family has. I'm not poor but my few belongings come from hard studying and working, and I do think that Chavez is a psychotic SOB. Somehow I can't enjoy seeing how my country starts looking more like Cuba everyday, seeing poverty growing with the highest oil prices in history, crime, violence and corruption higher than ever, seeing how the Government takes over ranches and companies... but hey maybe it's just me, maybe I should just relax and enjoy the revolution. Sincere question: Who do you think would make a better leader down there, and why?
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