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deserteaglle


Nov 21, 2005, 5:27 PM
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Stupid question but seriously not tryin to troll.
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I see the threads like "Why Do You Boulder", and while they are somewhat stupid, I feel compelled to ask this question about Aid.

I don't climb aid, because I am pretty ignorant of it's draw. My sport climbing partner and I joke about it being like climbing a ladder. But there obviously has to be something more to it, or all of you guys (and gals to, sorry for the expression) wouldn't do it.

Is it because of the length of the climbs, the scenery surrounding you, the height? I must admit, the pics of climbers sitting on their bivy ledges is pretty moving.

The main reasn I don't have much interest in it is because you are climbing up using the enormous amounts of gear you do, but after thinking about this, that reason seems kind of ridiculous. A safari is still a safari if you go in a Land Rover, and a hunt is still a hunt if you use a gun instead of your bare hands.

Just wondering what motivates you...maybe I need to try out a big wall...


azrockclimber


Nov 21, 2005, 5:40 PM
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depending on the aid grade it can easily be deadly if you make a single mistake with 100+ falls very possible. Shady pro everything scary...

You couldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. as goes the harder aids..ex: A5..no way.


reg


Nov 21, 2005, 5:47 PM
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people on porta ledges and walls aren't necessarily aid climbing. some difficult lines require mixed aid and free. i think it's good to know some basics - could help you some day. hey your aiding if you sit on a piece to rest or pull on any gear to get through a tough spot.


dingus


Nov 21, 2005, 5:47 PM
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Describe the color orange to a blind man.

DMT


Partner robdotcalm


Nov 21, 2005, 5:53 PM
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My grandson asked me a couple of weeks ago why I don't aid climb. I told him when I'm too old to do a chinup, I'll consider it along with getting a walker for the approach.

Cheers,
Rob.calm


pindrvr75


Nov 21, 2005, 5:54 PM
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Aid is just another tool that one should add to their "bag of tricks". It sure comes in handy when you run out of things to grab on to and your only recourse is to accept a dangerous retreat route. It is also a worthy skill for improving self rescue techniques.


climbingaggie03


Nov 21, 2005, 6:00 PM
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Aid is just fun, in a slightly masochistic sort of way.


Partner holdplease2


Nov 21, 2005, 6:01 PM
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Well, here goes.

Take the ladder that you are climbing. Normal house ladder...but make it abou a pitch length, or 150 feet high.

Now climb it in rollerblades.
Climb it with no hands.
Climb it balanced in the back of a moving pickup on a bumpy road.
Climb it drunk. ( ;) )

Climb it after your buddy has sawed 3/4 of the way through 15 of the steps, but you don't know which ones.

Climb it at night in a storm, and stay on it for a week and a half, hauling a 200 pound load.


The key understanding aid climbing, is understanding the ratings. In sport climbing, you can climb higher grads and still be almost totally safe. You are no more likely to die on 5.15a bolted than you are to die on 5.9 bolted. (Well bolted, of course)

In aid climbing, the grades are directly related to the length of fall/severity of injury expected if you blow it.

(My adaptation below, some subtle nuances could be wrong...)

A1: Every piece will hold a fall, every piece will hold your bodyweight, as long as you know how to reach the pieces.
A2: Almost every piece will hold a fall, you may have a few pieces in a row that might blow while you are on them or that would not catch a fall.
A3: There may be many pieces in a row, like 10, that may not hold your body weight, and if they blow, the ones below you won't necessarilly hold. You could fall 60+ feet, onto god knows what.
A4: Few pieces will hold a fall, and the falls could be bad (ledgy, penji into headwall, etc.) You can fall very far.
A5: Probably none of the gear will hold a fall, and it takes great skill to find the ones which will hold your body weight. If you fall here you could, and some might say probably will, die.

Plus, the challenge of finding gear placements that will hold bodyweight in nasty rock can be exciting. Moving between hook moves can require body english similar to hard slab climing. Its more climbing-like than you would think when you start trying to manuver through roofs, across slabs, etc.

Finally, the rope work and various systems are really interesting to some of us. There are a million ways to do it, we all have our systems that have developed over time. Its pretty sweet.

The color orange? Like eating a jollie rancher and burning your hand at the same time.

-Kate.


giza


Nov 21, 2005, 6:08 PM
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My sport climbing partner and I joke about it being like climbing a ladder.


My aid climbing partner and I joke about sport climbers all the time. Actually, I don't have a partner but when I'm soloing and talking to myself I joke about sport climbers.


clmbr121


Nov 21, 2005, 6:10 PM
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Kate,

Excellent description. The metaphor worked perfectly. I have never climber aid, but I totally understand the comparison. Awesome.

And orange is easy...just eat an orange Starburst. Now describing green...therein lies a challenge...


dingus


Nov 21, 2005, 6:12 PM
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The color orange? Like eating a jollie rancher and burning your hand at the same time.

-Kate.

Kate, have I told you lately that I love you? That my friend, is NOT BAD, not bad atall.

The one orange to a blind man that is perhaps most difficult to convey is the commitment.

Commitment.

Especially when you set sail under your own steam, instead of relying upon stronger/more experienced climbers to take care of the details. When the details are yours and yours alone, the sense of commitment is beyond visceral.

It is a Great White Whale, and is the make or break of all would-be wall climbers.

To the OP: I've done a few trade route walls and a few wilderness walls of the easier ilk. Kate on the other hand, when recently asked of her opinion relative to A5 and Fish portaledges, said in the course of her review,

"I've spent about 50-60 nights in either of them."

Its just a little throw away sentence. But for anyone who has ever presumed to climb on the big stone, that sentence says far more about commitment than it does ledges.

Its like in alpine, you see the shot of the beautiful alpinista, mugging a smile at the camera as she threads her way up some wicked ridge, clouds and pain all beneath her.

And yet, if you couldd dive into the photo, dive into her skull, and do as she does? At the very moment she's smiling at the camera, she's worried, gut wrenching worried, about a million details. She hurts, deep down and all over. Her breath is ragged and smells like burnt lung tissue. She hasn't had a bath in two weeks and just above her are 500 feet of seracs SHE has to find a way through.

And you find yourself thinking, oh, to be HER, up on that ridge.

OMG, if wishes were fishes, only Ahab would dare toss that harpoon! We'd all run screaming if we knew then what we know now!

Cept for people like Kate, lol. You know, the ones with a fortnight in the various portaledges, each. You don't have to describe pain and commitment to these people.

DMT


azrockclimber


Nov 21, 2005, 6:24 PM
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Aid is just another tool that one should add to their "bag of tricks". It sure comes in handy when you run out of things to grab on to and your only recourse is to accept a dangerous retreat route. It is also a worthy skill for improving self rescue techniques.

I like this way of thinking.


paganmonkeyboy


Nov 21, 2005, 6:31 PM
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Climb it after your buddy has sawed 3/4 of the way through 15 of the steps, but you don't know which ones.

Ah - I see you have climbed with some of my illustrious former roofing co-workers... :)


oklahoma


Nov 21, 2005, 6:36 PM
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In reply to:
A5: Probably none of the gear will hold a fall, and it takes great skill to find the ones which will hold your body weight. If you fall here you could, and some might say probably will, die.

what's the point of placing gear if it isn't going to hold you? That just seems a little pointless, like teaching the blind man how to read.


Partner tim


Nov 21, 2005, 6:41 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
A5: Probably none of the gear will hold a fall, and it takes great skill to find the ones which will hold your body weight. If you fall here you could, and some might say probably will, die.

what's the point of placing gear if it isn't going to hold you? That just seems a little pointless, like teaching the blind man how to read.

It's better than bailing. Especially if it does happen to hold.


reg


Nov 21, 2005, 6:48 PM
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oklahoma: free solo - no rope - fall you die
A5 = body weight gear (you have a rope but gear won't hold) - fall you die

same thing.

aid's just another way to climb rock. body weight gear will get you up but not save your keyster.


deserteaglle


Nov 21, 2005, 6:52 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:


My sport climbing partner and I joke about it being like climbing a ladder.


My aid climbing partner and I joke about sport climbers all the time. Actually, I don't have a partner but when I'm soloing and talking to myself I joke about sport climbers.

Firggin' hilarious!!!!

Dingus, do you ever say anything stupid? I keep looking for you to say something I could rip on, and you always thwart my plans!!!!! I can't stand your intelligence anymore!!!!! BLAM!!!!!HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH(HEAD FALLEN AND STUCK ON THE KEYBOARD)HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


stymingersfink


Nov 21, 2005, 7:01 PM
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Describe the color orange to a blind man.

DMT

(Places a small round fruit into the blind mans hands) This is what the color orange feels/smells/tastes like. Your sensations may vary.




(it was a grapefruit)


dingus


Nov 21, 2005, 7:04 PM
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Dingus, do you ever say anything stupid?

I once sat in my best friend's kitchen and calmly told him and his lovely wife that I would rather 'shoot myself in the head with a pistol than work as a short order cook.'

The look of dismay on my friend's face still haunts me to this day.

Guess what my best friend's lovely wife did for work???

After that, it was all UPHILL.

DMT


deserteaglle


Nov 21, 2005, 7:23 PM
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Dingus, do you ever say anything stupid?

I once sat in my best friend's kitchen and calmly told him and his lovely wife that I would rather 'shoot myself in the head with a pistol than work as a short order cook.'

The look of dismay on my friend's face still haunts me to this day.

Guess what my best friend's lovely wife did for work???

After that, it was all UPHILL.

DMT

That reminds me of a time that I put my fot in my mouth.(has nothing to do with climbing, but a funny story all the same)

I was talking to this girl I liked in class. Some guy was talking about his homophobic tendencies and I was asked my opinion. I said I don't care if somebody's gay or not, but one guy in one of my classes annoyed the hell out of me, because he acted REALLY gay, but would try to tell certain people that he had a girlfriend, and stuff like that. He hammed up the act and then lied about it, I just don't get that and told them he annoyed the hell out of me. They asked what his name was, but I didn't know, I started describing him...the girl I like finished the description of him. I said, "oh you know him?" She said, "Yeah, he's my brother." :oops:

I turned pretty friggin' red. Funny I didn't get smarter after that...well not as much smarter as Dingus did. :?


ricardol


Nov 21, 2005, 7:29 PM
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(My adaptation below, some subtle nuances could be wrong...)

A2: Almost every piece will hold a fall, you may have a few pieces in a row that might blow while you are on them or that would not catch a fall.

-Kate.

the best (or worst depending on view) part of aid climbing is that you never know what you're gonna get ... ahem .. i know of someone to took at 100'+ fall on a pitch that was rated A2 (rivets + heads) ..

.. looking back, i've never been more scared while climbing than when i aid solo .. that is reason enough to do it for me.

... the bivies aren't 1/2 bad either.

if you still dont get it .. check these puppies out ...

http://www.djradio.net/...ng/SouthSeas/Gallery


dingus


Nov 21, 2005, 8:02 PM
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I think the opening post to this Hoopsnake thread on supertopo will go a long way toward splainin the wall mentality:

Be sure to read the post BEFORE you look at the photo.

http://www.supertopo.com/...c_id=120617&f=0&b=25

Now THAT'S putting your money where your, um your money, um, that's puttin shit... right in your mouth!

DMT


deserteaglle


Nov 21, 2005, 8:12 PM
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that is sooo friggin' wrong man...whew. Maybe I'm a pansy, but I would much rather continue putting my foot in my mouth than my shit. :shock:


Partner j_ung


Nov 21, 2005, 8:20 PM
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Most people who have not climbed aid before have a common misconception, namely that it's easy. Hey, you get to rest wherever you want, right? But actually, it can be -- and often is -- very strenuous and very terrifying. You can't move up simply by sitting in your harness.

In reply to:
what's the point of placing gear if it isn't going to hold you?

Aid climbing is accomplished by setting, weighting and ascending on gear. Assuming the stars align correctly, it will hold you. Just not your fall if one of those stars steps out of line. :wink:


jt512


Nov 21, 2005, 8:24 PM
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Well, here goes.

Take the ladder that you are climbing. Normal house ladder...but make it abou a pitch length, or 150 feet high.

Climb it balanced in the back of a moving pickup on a bumpy road.

Finally, an aspect of climbing that slacklining would be good training for.

Jay

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