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thrmaln
Nov 28, 2005, 11:17 PM
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Hello All,
I spent the weekend in Jtree climbing some crack. I have very litle crack climbing experience since most of my sport and trad climbing has been mostly face and slab or crack for protection with good hands on face. So I learned that Crack climbing is an aquired taste and struggled a bit with the jams at first until someone lent me their Jammies. When my belayer from above saw me put them on, he told me to "take those stupid things off" and that he would make sure I had 15' of slack in the belay if I used them. I tried them anyways and noticed an instant improvement and did the climb in half the time the previous route took. I know that the downsize to the jammies is the increased thickness it adds which could turn a hand jam into a finger one. Especially since I have good size hands. My climbing partner is totaly against them so I doubt if I will get any, but I do have a question. Is there any sort of alternative to jammies and tape that may be thinner and not cosiddered as cheating? I have yet to try tape gloves and I plan to soon. I was pretty well shot from struggling with nothing by the time I tried the jammies that it was not worth it to tape up for one more climb. Could a thin leather glove be trimmed up to be some sort of tape/jammie hybrid? Are other alternatives available?
I know that as my technique improves it will be less of an issue and eventually tape gloves or no gloves will be fine. But for now I could use the help until that time comes as I progress.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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rockguide
Nov 29, 2005, 12:56 AM
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Hey Mark,
You climb with a tough climbing partner. He is probably mentally scarred from learning to climb without gloves and wants to share that love with you. Like someone who learned to swim by being thrown in the deep end has no respect for someone who learned in (shudder) the shallow end.
I have seen pictures of hotshots climbing in tape gloves. Look in the climbing mags.
It isn't cheating. Yes, it does make it easier, yes it does make it less painful, yes, it reduces bloodloss/scarring/gobbies.
Yes, it could be construed as training wheels. You are in training. gloves will reduce the pain and scarring and give you confidence to really try.
When I climb well below my limit on cracks I don't use tape - well set jams do not hurt much and a solid jam doesn't shift under load causing bleeding. When I push my grade on cracks I tape up. I am throwing jams in desperation, and it hurts and bleeds.
every crack will push your limits. It is possible that the crack you guys were doing does not push your partner's limits and he was loving that you were struggling and calling out while he cruised it saying .... not so bad ... you just have to be a MAN.
I don't know about the jammies - my milage is with tape gloves. If they help a N00B learn to love crack climbing then I am all for it ... just work them out of your game over time.
Brian
PS ... the penalty slack thing? 15 feet is a S--tload. Good thing you did not slip while your belayer had it out ... it would have sucked that you broke your leg because he didn't like your learning style.
PPS- I would love to hear your partner's side of the story ... your side is grim grim grim.
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dingus
Nov 29, 2005, 1:06 AM
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If you do any kind of work where gobied hands will be a liability, medical, sales, food service, whatever, then you owe it to your profession to protect yourself when doing your hobby.
Right?
So tell yer hard ass pal to stfu, its your living he's screwing with!
Hand jammies, have em, use em on occasion, mostly for scrabbly nasties on first or rarely climbed cracks. Tend to try and go naked for clean Yosemite cracks, within my grade that is. But when the going gets tough, or the rock gets rough, god god man, tape UP!
DMT
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thrmaln
Nov 29, 2005, 5:42 PM
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In reply to: PS ... the penalty slack thing? 15 feet is a S--tload. Good thing you did not slip while your belayer had it out ... it would have sucked that you broke your leg because he didn't like your learning style. PPS- I would love to hear your partner's side of the story ... your side is grim grim grim.
Hello All,
In reference to the 15' of slack, he was just egging me to take the things off. Once I started to climb, he brought me up. He had no choice! I plan to go to Jtree sometime in the next few weeks and when I do, I will give the tape gloves a try.
Yah, my main climbing partner (Dan) is tough. He uses gloves from time to time, but mostly goes bare since he knows how to jam without the threat of pulling out. The rock at Jtree is so crystalline that I will use some form of protection all the time or at least until I feel comfortable. I have only been climbing since March and have been having the time of my life. He and I compliment each other fairly well, since when we climb sport he leads in the 5.10b area and that is my current limit on TR at the moment so I get to clean the anchors. Sometimes I get stumped or pumped and can't clean it, but about 85% of the time I can. As he progresses to the next grade, I too get to progress as well. I currently lead in the 5.9 range sport. I also, have yet to have a lead fall so I know the odds are against me. I hope it happens on something steep and hard rather then on a low angled 5.6 with a bunch of stuff to pinball down.
On trad, Dan leads in the 5.9 range which is a bit stout for me, but I manage to follow most of the time. I have only led in the 5.5 range in trad, but it was 2 full rope pitches with a lot of pro, and it was mostly face with a crack for protection. I do not feel comfortable trying to lead even a way easy crack only climb yet. However, I feel that Trad is by far the discipline I intend to strive for as my skills progress.
Last weekend we spent the majority of our time setting up TR's for a large climbing get together. (around 60 people) Within the group, there were a bunch of people that had never climbed before or were very new to climbing. We took the newbies out and showed them the ropes sort to speak. On Saturday, I think we had 8 ropes set up with various grades on the Atlantis wall and on Sunday we had a bunch of routes set up at Indian cove.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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snoangel
Nov 29, 2005, 6:37 PM
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I have actually been thinking about getting a pair of jammies myself. I primarily sport climb and boulder, so the few times I crack climb a year, my hands suffer big time. I do tape up, but even then my hands are crying out (especially at JTree).
I think the most important thing to remember is your climb is your climb. Maybe your partner doesn't want or need to protect his hands, but if you do then go for it. Some people may wear approach shoes all day climbing; that doesn't mean you should too. :)
As long as your having fun and not hurting anyone else, climb the way you want to climb. That's what it's all about in my book! :D
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baja_java
Nov 29, 2005, 7:10 PM
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if you dread others might chastise your manliness for resorting to hand protection, if putting on jammie gloves or taping up might make you a weenie, if flaunting such white bandages of low pain tolerance might announce to the world what a pathetic weakling reeking of weak sauce that you are, well, i'm sure you would come to terms with all that by the time you've finished putting them on :D :D :D
climb however you like, dude
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leinosaur
Nov 29, 2005, 7:47 PM
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In reply to: Hand jammies, have em, use em on occasion, mostly for scrabbly nasties on first or rarely climbed cracks. Tend to try and go naked for clean Yosemite cracks, within my grade that is. But when the going gets tough, or the rock gets rough, god god man, tape UP! DMT
Amen! Not only experience, but also texture and "scrabbly nasties" should be considered.
We've got plenty of crystalline cracks here in OK and many's the time I've sworn I was gonna tape up, next time. Well, here's the one that's made me stick to it, so far:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=60609
That's me on belay, my buddy Chris putting up the Tarzan Traverse (5.9) on Crab Eyes, OK's scaled-down version of the Nautilus (i.e. mucho cracko, pendejo!)
After a good 15-20 minutes of vines and dirt raining down on me, I had more enthusiasm than sense and followed his FA without taping up. The crux is just past that bulge, where the feet disappear and the horizontal rattly-hand jams are at their roughest. Since Chris was gardening bare-handed (i.e. without a Dustbuster(tm)), the gnarly granite teeth in that crack were still thoroughly encrusted with green dirt.
So, I flailed my way through the crux with some nice gashes on my left hand to show for it, which formed GREEN SCABD within about 15 minutes.
Chalking the fresh woundd and then taping up for the next climb was woefully insufficient first-aid, and not surprisingly those green scabs were painfully inflamed by the next day. I had little choice but to soak and scrub.
In fact, any time you get a scrape the Wilderness Medical Institute recommends a good scrub. They advise having someone else do the scrubbing, as most people won't scrub hard enough to really clean all the junk out, because it hurts too much.
So tape up, use jammies, or whatever. Scars are weaker than good skin. Incidentally, Is your partner a barefoot-only climber, or what? Well then?
Re: MINIMALIST TAPING - there's a good way to get good coverage without adding a lot of bulk, which I read somewhere on the web as recommended, I believe, by Tommy Caldwell:
cover the back of your hand with two horizontal strips of tape, then anchor them down with a loop from your wrist to your pinky, and another to your pointer finger, then another one for your thumb if desired. Anchor these all with a few wraps around the wrist and you're good to go.
It's surely not the best method for all applications but it's nice to have in the repertoire. Even half-strips on the finger-loops works pretty well, cuts down even further on the bulk.
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caughtinside
Nov 29, 2005, 8:04 PM
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I used to not tape, more out of laziness than anything else. However, I've come around.
Tape makes:
My jams more secure
My jams much more comfortable
it so I don't gobie, and can climb many days in a row.
Last trip to JTree I crack climbed 7 days in a row. There's no way I could have done that if I didn't tape. Plus, I'm interested in climbing, not purity. 8^)
Oh, I've tried a friend's jammies, and they work great for the right sized cracks. I'm not a big fan generally though, because they make it so you can't get into tight hands, etc. Tape is more versatile, IMO.
Also, I do the 'quick tape' method. A couple wraps around the wrist, a couple wraps around the palm, to cover the knuckles. Works great for single pitch stuff. I'd probably go full on tape glove for MP.
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thrmaln
Nov 29, 2005, 9:19 PM
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[quote="caughtinside"]
Oh, I've tried a friend's jammies, and they work great for the right sized cracks. I'm not a big fan generally though, because they make it so you can't get into tight hands, etc. Tape is more versatile, IMO.quote]
Hey All,
My climbing partner is not a purist by any means, and he does tape every now and then. His reasons are the same as those mentioned above by caughtinside. He just does not want me to rely on a hand jammie since the downsize are the fact that it makes your hand wider which limits the size crack you can jam in. With tape gloves it's thinner so he is cool with that. I just never got around to taping so I tried a jammie since I was curious and I could borrow some since the climb was single pitch. I plan to give tape gloves a try next week.
I am sure as I get more time under my belt on crack then I will be more comfortable. I ended up not trusting my feet since when I weighted them it hurt like a bitch. With all my weight concentrated on a small contact patch it hurt like mad since I weigh 230lbs. I don't even want to know how much force that is, but I know it was a lot. Due to me trying to cut down on the pain I ended up supporting my body more then usual with my arms and now I have sore shoulders and biceps. When I climb face or slab, I can climb all day and my arms rarely hurt. Oh well more learning ahead.
Best regards,
Marc Webster
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epoch
Moderator
Nov 29, 2005, 10:31 PM
Post #10 of 21
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Tell your partner to shut the hell up. No matter what level or grade you climb you should be comfortable. I personally don't use tape unless I am at the top of my abilities. Usually I am bare knuckled and taking every brutal inch the rock deals out to me.
Take this advice. Invest in a knife. start at the knuckle and work your way down. You'd be amazed at the size of cracks that bone fits into. Plus you won't have to worry about the rock tearing your skin off. When done just sleeve your skin back on. NO SCARS!! :o
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angry
Nov 29, 2005, 11:01 PM
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I have no issues against tape. As long as you only put on enough to protect your hands. Over-taping intentionally to increase the size of your hands is cheating. I've seen well known and well respected climbers(I respect him enough not to name his name) do this, and yep, he cheated.
Hand Jammies tend to be a hinderance. Use them all you want, they suck.
To all you people saying that tape improves jamming. I say you are wrong, but you'll learn that soon. I started by taping and thought it was the shit. In the last few years, I've gotten away from taping. The harder I climb, the more I see the value in bare skin. Had you asked me the same thing a few years ago, I'd have told you that only idiots don't tape. I've changed my tune.
I taped on Bellyfull last week, but spent 4 other days in Indian Creek with no tape. Mostly fist, offwidths, and finger cracks. I also TR'd lots of handcracks my buddy led. I've got no gobies.
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rockguide
Nov 30, 2005, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: To all you people saying that tape improves jamming. I say you are wrong, but you'll learn that soon. I started by taping and thought it was the s---. In the last few years, I've gotten away from taping. The harder I climb, the more I see the value in bare skin
Taping reduces pain and skin damage. For beginers this equals better jamming. For people with good technique and within their ability, skin is fine. I agree.
In reply to: I taped on Bellyfull last week, but spent 4 other days in Indian Creek with no tape
I have not climbed Indian Creek, but it looks a lot less grainy than the Joshua Tree cracks the OP was describing. I cannot remember taping for any of the sandstone cracks I have done.
Brian
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vegastradguy
Nov 30, 2005, 3:37 AM
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i usually climb sans tape here in Red Rock and in Yosemite- even at my limit.
however, in Josh, that rock is so nasty that unless you climb there constantly, tape on the hands is (in my opinion) necessary to save your hands.
i dont really see the point of hand jammies, although a certain semi-famous local here in Red Rock uses them all the time- but my impression is that it is because the skin on the back of his hands is a bit thin these days and he's not industrious enough to tape up all the time.
all that said, i look forward to the day when i can climb a 5.10 crack in josh without tape- that'd be nice.
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tattooed_climber
Nov 30, 2005, 5:15 AM
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you wouldn't see me roping up with someone with fuckin 'jammies'....pffft :roll:
don't be a bullock and just use tape or be a man about it....
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petsfed
Nov 30, 2005, 5:38 AM
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Jtree is the only place I've ever been to that jammies seemed reasonable.
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climbingaggie03
Nov 30, 2005, 5:55 AM
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I use tape, not always, but if I'm going to be climbing hard in josh, or anywhere with rock that chews up your hands I make some gloves, I tried jammies once and I didn't like how thick they were, but if you like em go for it.
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dancesonrocks
Nov 30, 2005, 9:16 AM
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I don't normally tape up but a few weeks ago I was in J-tree and on the last day I did Hobbit Roof (toprope) and the folks I was with taped up for it and offered me some tape too. My hands were a little raw by then so I made some tape gloves.
It was great, especially for the below the roof twist finger/palm jam. Also, a friend of mine showed me how I can "recycle" the tape gloves. By just cutting them off a certain way and then taping in one place when I put them back on.
Now that I have some, I'll probably use them more, since, like another poster in this thread, one of the reasons I haven't been taping up is laziness :P
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jeff8v7
Jan 26, 2006, 2:26 AM
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Poking around online, I found an article on creating your own rubber climbing gloves. Check it out at http://climbing.com/techtips/tttrad225/
Since the price is low (reusing an old inner tube), I'm going to make a pair and try them out. Why not? Home-made, cheap, and lazy sounds like a great recipe for any climber!
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davidji
Jan 26, 2006, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: My climbing partner is totaly against them so I doubt if I will get any, |
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rad_dog
Jan 29, 2006, 2:45 AM
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I guess they don't make spider mitts any more. Those things were pretty neat. The only thing I didn't like was the elastic finger loops, those got a little tight and annoying sometimes.
Spider Mitts just covered the back of you hand with a thin layer of rubber. Elastic loops over the fingers, velcro wrap around the wrist.
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