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Don't go to the new jersey rock gym
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sprockets


Nov 30, 2005, 6:37 PM
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Don't go to the new jersey rock gym
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As some of you may remember, at this time a year ago, the most-read thread was "The Mike Arthur Situation," which was started by a friend of Mike's who was outraged by the unprofessional behavior of the NJRG, who banned him (and his entire family) for bringing the USA Team Coach with him to the gym.

A year later, and the names have changed, but the behavior is the same. The owner of the NJRG, Howard Bernstein, has threatened legal action against The Gravity Vault for hiring Matt Stark as a setter. Apparently, as a condition of Matt's employment, he was required to sign a contract that contained a no-compete agreement which essentially prohibited him from working at any entity that owned or operated a climbing facility within 25 miles of the NJRG. According to Mapquest, the Gravity Vault is 24.9 miles from the NJRG(this is how many miles a car would drive, not as the crow would fly).

The contract expired on Aug 31st 2003; however, the NJRG believes the no-compete clause extends beyond the term of the contract to the last day of Matt's employment and will remain so in effect until July of 2006. Howard Bernstein is maliciously trying to prevent Matt from earning a living as a setter and to eliminate the Gravity Vault as competition.

Legally, a covenant not to compete is only viable if it protects a “legitimate employers interest” which usually includes proprietary information, confidential information, trade secrets, etc. A restraint against competition is invalid when its sole purpose is to prevent competition since it does not protect any legitimate interest (other than Howard Bernstein's bank account).

If you like having another climbing option in northern NJ, do something. If you believe the NJRG is treating Matt Stark unfairly, DO SOMETHING. Send an email (info@njrockgym). Call the NJRG at 973-439-9860. Call Howard Bernstein directly at 732-249-6422 and tell him what you think of this. Tell every other climber about this. Cross-post this everywhere.
Cross post from another forum.


scottquig


Nov 30, 2005, 6:50 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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why didn't you post this in the other thread?


mburke225


Nov 30, 2005, 7:18 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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Actually, that is precisely what a no compete clause is for. It's so a worker can't go and use his skills at another facility which might lead to decreased revenue for the original employer. Sounds like the owner is being petty, but the owner, IMHO, has every right too. Just goes to show you need to watch everything you sign.


grinspoon


Nov 30, 2005, 7:29 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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The owner is a d0uche. Who's got a can of gas?


skatedork


Nov 30, 2005, 7:34 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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I sent my 2 cents to Howard..

It sounds more of a personal attack, if he was so worried about this he would have brought this up as they were opening, not 5 months later. I am sure personal politics is playing a role, but whatever the motivation is, there is a good chance this can be beat if the contract is expired. I'm no laywer though, I am just a bored computer programmer.

Out of my own curiosity, I am going to present this situation to one of the company lawyers to get his legal opinion on the matter.


jt512


Nov 30, 2005, 7:35 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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Actually, that is precisely what a no compete clause is for. It's so a worker can't go and use his skills at another facility which might lead to decreased revenue for the original employer. Sounds like the owner is being petty, but the owner, IMHO, has every right too. Just goes to show you need to watch everything you sign.

Oh, what bullshit. A covenant not to compete -- for a gym epmployee? This borders on malicious prosecution. I hope the judge sticks it to the gym owner.

Jay


leaverbiner


Nov 30, 2005, 8:09 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Actually, that is precisely what a no compete clause is for. It's so a worker can't go and use his skills at another facility which might lead to decreased revenue for the original employer. Sounds like the owner is being petty, but the owner, IMHO, has every right too. Just goes to show you need to watch everything you sign.

Oh, what s---. A covenant not to compete -- for a gym epmployee? This borders on malicious prosecution. I hope the judge sticks it to the gym owner.

Jay

I haven't always gotten your humor, but I hoep this is a joke!

Malicious prosecution has no application to this matter. Malicious prosecution requires action by the "state". If you are thinking of what is commonly referred to as "wrongful use of civil procedure", maybe there is something to be said for your statement. These are two very different legal constructs each with different burdens and standards - not to mention requirements regarding the status of the parties involved.


jt512


Nov 30, 2005, 8:44 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Actually, that is precisely what a no compete clause is for. It's so a worker can't go and use his skills at another facility which might lead to decreased revenue for the original employer. Sounds like the owner is being petty, but the owner, IMHO, has every right too. Just goes to show you need to watch everything you sign.

Oh, what s---. A covenant not to compete -- for a gym epmployee? This borders on malicious prosecution. I hope the judge sticks it to the gym owner.

Jay

I haven't always gotten your humor, but I hoep this is a joke!

Malicious prosecution has no application to this matter. Malicious prosecution requires action by the "state".

Maybe that's true in some jurisdictions, but in general, malicious prosecution can refer to either civil or criminal procedings, and the "state" need not be the plaintiff. See for instance: http://dictionary.law.com/...99&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

Specific to New Jersey: http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/civil/charges/313.htm

Jay


Partner phaedrus


Nov 30, 2005, 9:03 PM
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phaedrus moved this thread [In reply to]
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phaedrus moved this thread from General to Indoor Gyms.


funnelator


Nov 30, 2005, 9:12 PM
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First, I'm not a lawyer, but I have been involved in the writing of some non-compete agreements, as an employer. If my comments are out of line or inaccurate, I hope one of the lawyers "present" will correct me.

If the past employer and the employee signed a contract, a non-compete agreement, then the past employer has no basis for suing the new employer. The employee, of course, when signing the agreement, had no right to speak for or obligate his future employer(s) in any way.

The employee is the more likely target of any complaint. If the employee signed a non-compete agreement that is specific in regard to distance, time (usually to be enforceable these things last no more than two years from time of separation of parties to the agreement), and prohibited activities, then the agreement may very well be enforceable.

The employee was under no obligation to sign the agreement when he went to work for the past employer. He benefited from the relationship with the past employer, was no doubt privy to proprietary information of the past employers, information that could aid a future competitor, and is now bound by the terms of the non-compete agreement, for the duration of it's term.

That doesn't mean that the past employer is a good guy or company. It just means that if they petition the court to enforce the agreement (a well written agreement would provide for injunctive relief rather than a drawn out law suit), it is both ethical (fair) and well within their legal rights.


ikefromla


Nov 30, 2005, 9:16 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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hahaha.. that is just ridiculous.


skatedork


Nov 30, 2005, 9:22 PM
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It all lays within the wording of the Non Compete. The question is really, How well did Howard cover his ass? I have seen some down and dirty Non Compete Agreements that had wording that was easy to work around or expired when the contract expired. I have also had employers ask me to sign one every year.

Whatever NJRG's agenda is, it sure isn't helping business by using these shrewd tactics. I think the lawsuit is going to hurt them more than help them.


jt512


Nov 30, 2005, 9:26 PM
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Re: Don't go to the new jersey rock gym [In reply to]
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The employee...was no doubt privy to proprietary information of the past employers, information that could aid a future competitor....

Come on, we're talking about an unskilled laborer here! Covenenants not to compete are intended for professionals who could steal clients or valuable trade secrets, not a kid working in a climbing gym.

Jay


leaverbiner


Nov 30, 2005, 9:33 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Actually, that is precisely what a no compete clause is for. It's so a worker can't go and use his skills at another facility which might lead to decreased revenue for the original employer. Sounds like the owner is being petty, but the owner, IMHO, has every right too. Just goes to show you need to watch everything you sign.

Oh, what s---. A covenant not to compete -- for a gym epmployee? This borders on malicious prosecution. I hope the judge sticks it to the gym owner.

Jay

I haven't always gotten your humor, but I hoep this is a joke!

Malicious prosecution has no application to this matter. Malicious prosecution requires action by the "state".

Maybe that's true in some jurisdictions, but in general, malicious prosecution can refer to either civil or criminal procedings, and the "state" need not be the plaintiff. See for instance: http://dictionary.law.com/...99&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

Specific to New Jersey: http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/civil/charges/313.htm

Jay

I like when people do their own research. Nice job Jay.

I guess since most of my legal knowledge is so Pennsylvania biased I didn't consider the general use of the terminology.

PA differentiates the two very distinctly.

The problem with this claim is really the fact that you have to (1) prevail in the initial action, which means spending money to fight it, and (2) prove usually either something akin to frivilousness, or malicousness. While that may seem clear to you and I, it is not nearly as easy to prove as one might think.


funnelator


Nov 30, 2005, 9:47 PM
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"Come on, we're talking about an unskilled laborer here! Covenenants not to compete are intended for professionals who could steal clients or valuable trade secrets, not a kid working in a climbing gym."

If he was a kid, a minor, and not an adult when he signed the contract, then that will of course solve the problem. Route setting is a skill, is it not? Otherwise both gyms would hire unskilled laborers to set routes.

It is my understanding that covenants not to compete are intended to keep people from competing in a similar business, in a limited area, for a limited period of time.

I for one would love to read the agreement. Most non-compete agreements, as mentioned somewhere above, aren't worth the paper they are written on.

But then there is the issue of, if the employee signed the agreement willingly, however unenforceable that agreement may be, shouldn't he keep his word?

By the way, I don't know either party. I'm just interested in the legal and ethical issues this situation raises.


jt512


Nov 30, 2005, 9:57 PM
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Route setting is a skill, is it not? Otherwise both gyms would hire unskilled laborers to set routes.

Routesetting is a skill, but that doesn't make routesetting skilled labor, like carpentry, welding, machining, etc.

In reply to:
It is my understanding that covenants not to compete are intended to keep people from competing in a similar business, in a limited area, for a limited period of time.

Yes, and a routesetter taking a job with at another gym is not competing; it's just getting a better job. That's the way it works: you work somewhere, learn stuff, and either get a raise, or go to work somewhere that will pay you more for what you are now worth.

In reply to:
But then there is the issue of, if the employee signed the agreement willingly, however unenforceable that agreement may be, shouldn't he keep his word?

No. The agreement wasn't reasonable in the first place and was a condition for employment. The employee had inferior bargaining power and, assuming he needed a job, was under duress. The agreement should be considered null.

Jay


fulton


Nov 30, 2005, 10:00 PM
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Just avoid the entire State of New Jersey.


funnelator


Nov 30, 2005, 10:01 PM
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Jay, thanks for the legal commentary. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is, under the circumstances, you are on the mark.


jt512


Nov 30, 2005, 10:08 PM
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Jay, thanks for the legal commentary. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is, under the circumstances, you are on the mark.

I just play a lawyer on the Internet.

Jay


saphius


Nov 30, 2005, 10:17 PM
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Just avoid the entire State of New Jersey.

Ahhhhh, I love Jersey.


funnelator


Nov 30, 2005, 10:31 PM
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Jay, thanks for the legal commentary. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My guess is, under the circumstances, you are on the mark.


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