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climbingaggie03
Dec 1, 2005, 5:37 AM
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Ok, so I don't want this to come off as an elitist rant, but tourists annoy me, So many people climb 14ers in the front range and I'm glad they get out, but it's ridiculous, I just saw some pictures from the summit of longs peak in the summer time and it looks crowded.
With so many people up there and so poorly prepared (most of them are in jeans and sweatshirts) I can't help but think it's only a question of how often accidents that require a rescue happen. I keep thinking that If I keep climbing harder and harder peaks that the crowds of tourist will disappear and I can enjoy the peace that comes with being alone in the mountains, but it seems like every "famous" mountain (fourteeners, Whitney, hood, Rainer, Tetons, Denali, Everest, ect.) is suffering from crowding problems. Maybe I should start climbing other peaks, and I do, but I want to see some of the "famous" ones too, but why are they so crowded? and why do I think that most of these people aren't properly equipped or experienced?
sorry for an aimless rant, I know that this isn't a new problem, but it still bothers me
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builttospill
Dec 1, 2005, 7:35 AM
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Unfortunately (i say that because I have felt the same way as you) they have as much right to be there as you do. Yes, they are unprepared, and I don't think anyone will disagree with you. I can't even begin to argue with that.
I would highly suggest climbing other peaks. Or alternate routes for the popular peaks. In my backyard I have been on the summit of local classics with like 15 other people (and I don't live in Colorado in the middle of the 14er craze). But I've also been on climbs where I have not encountered another person all day and didn't see any from the summit either. You just have to hunt down the "non-classic" peaks.
But you might as well get used to it, because it will probably only get worse in the future.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 1, 2005, 2:35 PM
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In reply to: Ok, so I don't want this to come off as an elitist rant...
Too late.
It's pretty selfish to think that you have more right to be there. You are right that a lot of them come unprepared, but those mountains are popular for a reason. Up in the northeast, we a lot of crowded trails. Everyone is out for their "wilderness" experience. I say "Great!" It doesn't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is the people who are out there who don't respect where they are (litter, noise, etc.). Plus if I want a true nature experience, then I will avoid the "popular" places and go somewhere else. It will just take a little more work on my part.
Everyone should have acces to the same things, and rather than turn our noses up at them, we should be teaching them how to respect it.
Josh
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statusfreejoy
Dec 1, 2005, 3:24 PM
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I agree that crowds will detract from a wilderness solitude experience, but there are PLENTY of places to go for a hike or climb where you will rarely see anyone if that's what you're after. The climbing is not as established, and thus way sketchier...so there's a trade-off.
At popular crowded areas, it's usually just great to see so many people out there enjoying it and not sitting in front of their TVs or at the bars (or in front of their computers :? ). But alas, as blueeyedclimber points out, it is maddening if the places are disrespected with trash, etc...but this seems rare to me, and I've witnessed just as much if not more disrespsect of the environment by climbers.
As for the jeans and cotton sleeping bags and ice axes over the shoulder....usually makes me laugh at myself with all my fancy and unnecessary gear...but I agree once in a while it is disconcerting (like the two guys I assisted trying to climb El Whampo crack at Taquitz in jeans and snowboots!).
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ecjohnson
Dec 1, 2005, 4:21 PM
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Hmmmm... the age old tourist rant! Yeah, I live in Colorado, yeah I bitch about tourists... Texans especially, but they have a right to be here. My suggestion, is to climb Colorado's 13ers. There are a lot more of them, and many have some amazing technical routes that are classics in Colorado climbing. Or come to our area of the state... away from the front range hordes, and climb the 14ers in the San Juans. Many of them require a day of backpacking, or more depending on where you start. They are very remote, and yeah, there are going to be some people, but they are mostly climbers, and know what they are doing and are willing to go further and work harder for their goal. They are not the "day" 14er crowd as I refer to many on the more easily accessible peaks. Everyone has an opportunity to do what they want to here in the state, and everyone should get to do what they want.
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 4:43 PM
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In reply to: With so many people up there and so poorly prepared (most of them are in jeans and sweatshirts) I can't help but think it's only a question of how often accidents that require a rescue happen.
Did you see in Rock and Ice how Michael Reardon set the fastest ascent record of Palisade Traverse? He did it wearing jeans, and a sweater, and only had a K-mart backpack full of size 12 panties and a Donatello action figure.
You wanna know what almost puts me into a pointless rant (I know you don't but I'll tell you anyway.) Dumbasses who think their expensive gear is what makes them better. That shit makes me sick. I go hiking in tennis shoes (for comfort) and comfortable, durable clothes. I climb the same way...well I do use rockclimbing shoes, but I started out in tennis shoes there too.
When I was at E-rock the only thing that bothered me was the noise...and the people with expensive hiking boots, store bought walking poles, and north face gear. It was still beautiful and awesome, but yuppies did detract from it a little bit. I even had to help some of those losers that had spent hundreds of dollars on their apparel get off the rock. They were stuck, afraid to go any further, and I had to go up to them IN MY FRIGGIN' FLIP FLOPS to help them down so they would be quiet and get away from my campsite.
I guess what I'm saying is, they annoy me too, but it is a minor annoyance, not a big deal. I don't mind elitism either. Especially when it's coming from yuppies looking down on me because of how much money I saved by not buying a bunch of crap. They still have a "right" to be there, whatever that means, I guess what's important is having a good time and looking like a badass while you're doing it :lol: :roll: .(yes, I have to roll my eyes at myself sometimes)
Hopefully I've made a post that is at least as pointless as the original. :D
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climbilicious
Dec 1, 2005, 4:49 PM
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alaska, baby! yeah, there are tons of tourists in the summer, but most of them don't get off the roads. and there are also tons of unclimbed peaks and undiscovered climbing areas. course, maybe i shouldn't be announcing this to the world...
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mistymountainhop
Dec 1, 2005, 4:54 PM
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I hate tourons, but we are all in a sense. Instead of ranting for 4 pages why i hate them i use the following guidelines as much as possible:
Never climb the most popular mountain around using the standard route in peak season (longs, rainier, grand teton)
Always choose the road less taken if safe.
Never go to the valley during the summer.
Overweight Texan tourons are by far the worst. Go back in your oversized SUV's to texas and destroy your own God-forsaken state.
Lie to tourons when they ask what a crashpad is.
NEVER EVER go to the valley during the summer if you hate tourons.
Its ok to lie to, and sometimes abuse tourons.
If they annoy you, throw rocks at them.
The valley is a f-cking zoo during the summer.
Good enough?
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 4:58 PM
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It makes me sad to hear shit talked about Texas. :(
Are you gonna sit there and try to tell me that there are no dumbass fat people where you come from?
It's funny how so many more mature open-minded people from other states stereotype so much. :roll:
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reg
Dec 1, 2005, 5:06 PM
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i don't get it - if you're walkin up longs and they're walkin up longs - what's the diff between you and them? maybe they're bothered by you. this is such a small (and maybe pointless) thing to worry about.
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hand2foot
Dec 1, 2005, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: Lie to tourons when they ask what a crashpad is.
A guy and I were hiking out of the Flatirons. A girl asks what "that thing was on our backs"..... "A Rocky Mountain Hump Pad!" he responds. The girl had a perplexed/ highly offended look on her face. A one of those, you had to be there moments, but priceless.
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 5:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Lie to tourons when they ask what a crashpad is. A guy and I were hiking out of the Flatirons. A girl asks what "that thing was on our backs"..... "A Rocky Mountain Hump Pad!" he responds. The girl had a perplexed/ highly offended look on her face. A one of those, you had to be there moments, but priceless.
I really wish I could start being mean. I know ya'll weren't being mean, but think of all the humor I miss out on because of my Texan politeness. Damn!!! Well, actually I can be rather mean to people on here...but to regular well-meaning people, it's hard to be mean, even if it is funny. :)
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mistymountainhop
Dec 1, 2005, 6:07 PM
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Sorry for banging on Texas deserteagle. I worked in Estes Park for three summers, and everyone, even the administrators were the first to point out 99% of the dumbest tourons are from texas. That also very well could be b/c texas is huge and most of the visitors are from texas. one of my better friends actually lives in midland.
Actually, there are no fat people where i come from. well, people dont think there are, we just dont let them out of their cages.
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 6:20 PM
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In reply to: Sorry for banging on Texas deserteagle. I worked in Estes Park for three summers, and everyone, even the administrators were the first to point out 99% of the dumbest tourons are from texas. That also very well could be b/c texas is huge and most of the visitors are from texas. one of my better friends actually lives in midland. Actually, there are no fat people where i come from. well, people dont think there are, we just dont let them out of their cages.
hahahahahaha. Yeah, there are a shitload of people here(in Texas I mean). Who is your friend? Maybe I know them. It's funny that I really might. Just don't say one of the Bush's, they stopped talking to me when I got caught partying with GW(yeah that was before he got al gay on me), and they said I was all a bad influence and stuff. "He's gonna be president someday, you can't be giving him drugs!" I didn't think it would really happen. I mean he was a C student, and I made B's!!!!!!!
Anyway, you shouldn't keep fat people in cages...they just get fatter. Try putting them on leashes and running them behind your pickup...wait ya'll do drive pickup trucks right?
I hate stereotypes...so often they are right. I have to admit shamefacedly, "Yes I'm from Texas. Yes I drive a pickup truck. Yes I wear a cowboy hat. Yes I carry a gun. But it's not like you think, that's all a coincidince." Life is so cruel.
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littlefingers
Dec 1, 2005, 6:35 PM
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I get more annoyed at the climbers who frequent an area and adopt a feeling of ownership over it than I do the folks wondering how ropes get to the top of a route. I understand developing a deep feeling of attachment and respect for an area when spending a lot of time there— but having an ego that gives a person the illusion of owning a craig or mountain makes me shake my head. I don't intend to insult anyone, but a particular instance comes to mind—
This spring I was enjoying a classic 5.9 multipitch at Cathedral on a beautiful day. I was happily set up at my anchor on a ledge belaying my friend, when a face clambers over the edge of my perch, and I find a sweaty, very smelly, guy walking in front of, on top of, and pretty much all over my anchor! I don't mind sharing a ledge- but this was too much. There was no hello, excuse me, or sorry for disturbing a moment of your tranquility here... just one smelly guy starting to piss me off. It was an attitude problem really- he was acting like I should be happy he was there, because he was a hard climbing local, and was going to work the 12 crack straight up from the ledge. He acted like I was in HIS way.
So my request from this experience: don't let your ego ruin a great experience on a beautiful route, ok? and please if someone looks happy on a small belay ledge, chill out and wait 10 minutes- or at least just call up and say, "hey, mind if I join you up there?"
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ecjohnson
Dec 1, 2005, 6:46 PM
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I'm not bashing on all Texans, I have family and friends in Texas. But... I am bashing the texans who think they own the towns that I live in, just because they have an enormous house that they "live" in 2-4 weeks out of the year they think they are god. I've asked tourists where they live and they say "Austin, Dallas, Cincinnatti, Madison, insert City in Texas or the Midwest... AND Steamboat, Aspen, Durango, Sun Valley, Jackson, insert any remote mountain town." Then I ask "Oh yeah, how much time do you spend in said mountain town?" and they say 2-4 weeks. I'm sorry... they don't live there... they go on vacation there, and own property!!!
Not to mention, here close to my home and heart, a TEXAN is trying to create a "village" for 10,000 people... or the size of Vail and Aspen combined for some reference... at 11,000 feet on Wolf Creek pass. Then said Texan WOULD own his own town, and ruin one of the most beautiful areas of the state. All because it will make him money!!!
I'm done now!
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dietmoxie_15
Dec 1, 2005, 7:44 PM
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Up in New England it gets hectic. Not that its a bad thing but during a fall hike up Mt. Washington it got really bad. Everybody seemed to have driven their huge SUVs up the road to the top. When I got to the top people kept giving me dirty looks. The entire place was covered in trash and cigerette butts. I'm not against others hiking where I hike but they should at least pick up after themselves.
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 7:57 PM
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Wow, I don't know any Texans like that, but I don't doubt for a second they are out there. The good ole boys I deal with everyday are conundrums. They can be the best friends in the world to have, and be really great people in many circumstances, but at the same time never think about anybody but themselves and those close to them. Definitely the worst drivers around.
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jred
Dec 1, 2005, 8:53 PM
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In reply to: It makes me sad to hear s--- talked about Texas. :( Are you gonna sit there and try to tell me that there are no dumbass fat people where you come from? It's funny how so many more mature open-minded people from other states stereotype so much. :roll: |
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rmsusa
Dec 1, 2005, 8:58 PM
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Just a philosophical point .... but:
Should you allow your enjoyment of a place to be dimished by the fact that other people are enjoying it as well?
If you want solitude, maybe you should go to a place where that's possible and separate experience of place and experience of state.
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jacobbelsher
Dec 1, 2005, 9:02 PM
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I'll let you in on a secret my friends. Climb during the weekdays. on a tuesday or wednesday,you'll have even the busiest routes on Rainier (DC) pretty much to yourself. Also, to avoid the crowds, do harder routes.
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It makes me sad to hear s--- talked about Texas. :( Are you gonna sit there and try to tell me that there are no dumbass fat people where you come from? It's funny how so many more mature open-minded people from other states stereotype so much. :roll: As a Canadian living in a major tourist resort town, I gotta say, Texan's are great. Perhaps it is because only liberal minded Texan's would travel to Canada leaving the Bush faction behind. Texan's are very generous tippers, polite and easy going. I still think your a dick though Desserteagle.
Glad you don't hate all Texans. And while I don't know what I did to piss you off, I don't doubt I did do something dickish. :lol:
I don't really hate Canadians persay...just the country and everything it stands for...wait, actually I don't even recognize you as a country. I think of Canada as like a really big crappy state in the United States.hahahhaha
Now he's really gonna think I'm a dick. Sorry dude. 8^)
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deserteaglle
Dec 1, 2005, 9:31 PM
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OH HOLY CRAP!!!!!!! Now I remember you Jred!!!!!
Dude you still sore over that? Jesus Christ man, take it easy. Eh, then again you are Canadian, eh. What else could I expect?...EH!
Dude, I'm sooo sorry, I couldn't help myself. I am really trying to be funny. The only problem is, I'm not. Once you realize this we can be friends. I loved that picture you got posted on the front page...it was badass.
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jred
Dec 1, 2005, 10:03 PM
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In reply to: OH HOLY CRAP!!!!!!! Now I remember you Jred!!!!! Dude you still sore over that? Jesus Christ man, take it easy. Eh, then again you are Canadian, eh. What else could I expect?...EH! Dude, I'm sooo sorry, I couldn't help myself. I am really trying to be funny. The only problem is, I'm not. Once you realize this we can be friends. I loved that picture you got posted on the front page...it was badass. |
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