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mistajman
Jan 26, 2006, 5:50 PM
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I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a comparison of these two types of rubber. I'm trying to decide on buying either a pair of acopas or evlolvs. Thanks
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stevsop
Jan 26, 2006, 6:44 PM
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If you care about the rubber that much then go with 5.10. Stealth is far superior to any other company's formula.
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caughtinside
Jan 26, 2006, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: If you care about the rubber that much then go with 5.10. Stealth is far superior to any other company's formula.
If you believe their marketing.
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soulsurfer
Jan 26, 2006, 6:59 PM
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I would have to say that stealth is not the superior rubber that maybe it once was. I personally feel the Evolve rubber is a bit stickier.
But to base you shoe choice on rubber is kinda lame. Get a shoe that fits YOUR foot and style of climbing. If Kamps can put up Chingadera at tahquitz in the 1970's(5.11a friction) with some old boots I think you need to practice your technique more and worry about rubber less :wink:
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stevsop
Jan 26, 2006, 10:36 PM
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I based my assertion not on magazine ads but the experiences of myself and others. I own two pairs or 5.10s as well as evolvs, red chilis, and sportivas. The 5.10 rubber's friction is superior. I would take any of the above companies' rubbers over evolv's. Of course there are many other factors to take into account when buying shoes, and evolvs may be the best choice for some, but he asked about their rubber, and it sucks. Period.
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mdlb21
Jan 26, 2006, 11:28 PM
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I would have to disagree with the post above. I have worn 5.10s for the last 5 years and their rubber has been better than everything I tried until I got my shoes resoled by Yose Bum. The new Evolve rubber I believe in cold temps (50 and below) to have much better friction than 5.10. With that said I have not tried the new v10s to see how 5.10s new rubber works. Overall 5.10s are still my favorite shoes but now that I have a real job and cant get a new pair at prodeal I have started to get my shoes resoled and was very impressed with Evolves rubber.
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omenbringer
Jan 26, 2006, 11:32 PM
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I found the Acopa rubber to be very sticky. The only problem I noticed was in the durability, I ate thru the rubber very quickly. I have owned 5.10's, Sportiva, and evolves and I believe the Acopas were the stickiest. I definately found them to fit me the best, they out performed both my anasazis and katanas. And didn't like the Evolves that much, they just didn't fit me very well.
Also since my huecos blew thru the rand after just 3 climbs in the gym I haven't purchased another pair.
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jred
Jan 27, 2006, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: If you care about the rubber that much then go with 5.10. Stealth is far superior to any other company's formula. If you believe their marketing. |
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sidepull
Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a comparison of these two types of rubber. I'm trying to decide on buying either a pair of acopas or evlolvs. Thanks
which two models are you comparing? what type of climbing will you be doing? what type of rock will you be climbing on? what's more important to you - stickiness or durability?
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caughtinside
Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: I based my assertion not on magazine ads but the experiences of myself and others. I own two pairs or 5.10s as well as evolvs, red chilis, and sportivas. The 5.10 rubber's friction is superior. I would take any of the above companies' rubbers over evolv's. Of course there are many other factors to take into account when buying shoes, and evolvs may be the best choice for some, but he asked about their rubber, and it sucks. Period.
Well, I'd disagree. I know evolv had some rubber issues 2 years ago, but since that time, their Traxx rubber has been great. I've got a pair of evolves and a pair of resoled shoes with it. Works great. To me, not noticeably better or worse than stealth.
I've had about 5 pairs of 5.10s, and 2 resoles done with it. It's good stuff too. But I think the 'stickiest' claim is all hype marketing.
I'm on my second pair of sportivas, and have been very impressed. Great shoes. Got them resoled with Vibram, rather than Stealth, because the stuff was great.
Results, I can't really tell the difference in stickiness between Evolve, SPortiva, and 5.10 rubber. However, I think the vibram is slightly harder, which gives better edging and better durability.
Just one man's opinion. Sorry, no experience with acopas.
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climbappalachia
Jan 27, 2006, 1:13 AM
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I agree that it is hard to call one rubber better than another these days.
Every company has stepped it up with a better formula.
Even C4 has a better clone.
However, different rubbers have different properties.
I have used Evolv's old rubber and it was great. I haven't got them resoled yet but when I do it will apparently be even better.
I am interested in Acopa rubber though.
I have heard from John Bachar at Acopa that their rubber excells when it come to sensitivity.
John said "Synthetic Butyl "rubbers" aren't really rubber - they don't have that "feel" to them - which is why I like the Acopa rubber so much...
All I know is that this rubber has exceptional friction and
exceptional "feel" for light-touch situations on overhanging rock.
Butyl type rubbers are good if you apply a lot of weight on them but
don't work well if you press very lightly - they usually "skate"."
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ne_dan
Jan 27, 2006, 1:20 AM
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I like Evolv's rubber, when I first got a pair of Evolv Bandits the rubber did seem slick. This is only because the rubber requires a break in period, which C-4 rubber does not, I have also found that Evolv's rubber is more durable than C-4. In fact almost all of my shoes now sport trax rubber. Go with the Evolv's.
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james_climber
Jan 27, 2006, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a comparison of these two types of rubber. I'm trying to decide on buying either a pair of acopas or evlolvs. Thanks
Evolvs rubber goes off fast
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climbinginchico
Jan 27, 2006, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a comparison of these two types of rubber. I'm trying to decide on buying either a pair of acopas or evlolvs. Thanks Evolvs rubber goes off fast
Not in my experience. I've been totally satisfied with both styles of Evolv's I have. And the rubber has held up extremely well. I've had them both for well over a year, and the new rubber is stickier and better wearing than the old stuff.
It wears better than my shoes with Vibram and Stealth. The stealth rubber is actually my least favorite of all the ones I own, and I have Trax, Vibram, Mad Rock, and Stealth.
To each his own.
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unrooted
Jan 27, 2006, 5:33 AM
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Acopa shoes suck, they copy other companies almost as much as mad rock. I've had two pair of shoes resoled with trax, and LOVE it. evolv makes much higher quality shoes than five ten, the only reason to buy five ten is cause you can replace em for free when (not if) they start falling apart. Five Ten's Galileo is susposed to be very sticky and durable (according to my friend), but I doubt they will last, since five ten doesn't know how to get rubber to stick to the shoe as well as sportiva.
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unrooted
Jan 27, 2006, 5:37 AM
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In reply to: have heard from John Bachar at Acopa that their rubber excells when it come to sensitivity. John said "Synthetic Butyl "rubbers" aren't really rubber - they don't have that "feel" to them - which is why I like the Acopa rubber so much...
John Bachar also told the founder of five ten that he could never make a rubber that will beat boreal, he is an arrogant a-hole.
I hope he leaves climbing again, soon.
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mistajman
Jan 27, 2006, 5:57 PM
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Thanks for all the input. I should have been less general with my post. Some people took it way wrong. I care a lot more about a durable shoe than how sticky it is. I'm more into trad than sport routes where stickiness matters. I was looking at the evolv bandit and trying to figure out what acopa model would be the equivalent. Thanks again for all the input.
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climbinginchico
Jan 27, 2006, 7:24 PM
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Get the bandits. You won't be disappointed. I use them for 99% of my climbing now. Only gym and real hard sport see my Kaos, and I rarely bust out the Mythos since I got the Bandits.
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bachar
Apr 10, 2006, 3:00 AM
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uprooted- Just for the record, I never told Charles Cole he wouldn't be able to make a rubber stickier than Boreal's. Also, I make my own designs at Acopa and don't copy anyone.
peace, jb
mistajman - you might like the Aztecs (durable, comfy lace up trad) or the Chameleons (all around sport velcro)....email me if you want some recommendations. cheers...
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bachar
Apr 10, 2006, 3:08 AM
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t-dog
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Apr 10, 2006, 3:47 AM
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In reply to: Acopa shoes suck, they copy other companies almost as much as mad rock.
LOL, have you worn, or even seen the shoes that Acopa make?
The foot position is so completely different in the Acopas I've had (Sidewinders) from any other shoe I've worn (Boreal, 5.10, Sportiva, Evolve), that I'm gonna go with you being clueless.
If you wanna rip on Mad Rock from blatently riping off 5.10, or FMTech for blatently riping off the previous 2, have at it. But personally, I'm glad that a company like Acopa came around, that not only is offering cheaper shoes, but also novel designs and construction.
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billcoe_
Apr 10, 2006, 3:57 AM
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In reply to: uprooted- Just for the record, I never told Charles Cole he wouldn't be able to make a rubber stickier than Boreal's. Also, I make my own designs at Acopa and don't copy anyone. peace, jb
John, anything worth saying once is worth saying 3 times. :P
I haven't tried Bachars shoes ........yet.
But am looking forward to doing so. I remember that he was selling some of the first fires in Yos must be the early 80's,.......like 83? 82? and saying that the rubber on those was signifigantly better than EB's, and it was too, and not just a little bit, so I think I'd tend to believe him now.
I would avoid 5.10 shoes. I think they are not long lasting and that is a criteria the first poster mentioned.
Yosemite bum did resole my only 5.10 pair of shoes with Traxx and it's great stuff, but I confess that I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between my other 3 active pairs of shoes, 2 of which have recent Steath resoles.
I haven't tried the Vibram soles, and don't even know what came on my Red Chilies or my 3 pairs of Sportivas. I like both of those shoes, but I suspect that the combination of the tight little flat soles on the Red Chilis and the 2 laps I did up and run down the backside of a local multipitch in them contributed to some severe foot pain/tendonitious that I've been carring now for 7 months or so.
Summation: try the Acopa's and if you like the fit and the price you'll be rocking. Poor advice, but all I have.
I'd love to get a pair on my feet. JB, you bringing the road show and coming up to the Pacific NW any time soon?
:?: :idea:
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bachar
Apr 10, 2006, 3:59 AM
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Just a note: I've worn Evolv shoes and they make some nice stuff. Their rubber is fine as well. I happen to prefer the Acopa rubber myself - it has a little more "feel" as it is a "natural rubber" based product (not synthetic based). It all boils down to personal preference anyway. I think fit is most important - not the rubber. Most climbing rubber today is great compared to when I started out - you should all be happy you never had to climb in EB's!
cheers, jb
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trebork2
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Apr 10, 2006, 4:00 AM
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Sportiva All The Way
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curt
Apr 10, 2006, 4:14 AM
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In reply to: Just a note: I've worn Evolv shoes and they make some nice stuff. Their rubber is fine as well. I happen to prefer the Acopa rubber myself - it has a little more "feel" as it is a "natural rubber" based product (not synthetic based). It all boils down to personal preference anyway. I think fit is most important - not the rubber. Most climbing rubber today is great compared to when I started out - you should all be happy you never had to climb in EB's! cheers, jb
No EBs. Vasque Ascenders prior to the Fires, John. 8^)
Curt
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