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spydermonkey
Aug 16, 2002, 4:33 PM
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justsendingits~do you hate your own country?
Why do we suck for having the weapons? If we weren't so advanced with weaponry then we would probably be speaking German or Russian, and wouldn't be allowed to climb.
Not to be hostile towards Russians or Germans. I like them.
Yeah sure we trained the Afgans in the cold war to fight the evil communists, but when they turn into a controling reshieme(sp?) and kill there own people in soccer stadiums, publically, then we have the right to step in an use our weapons to stop the terror and destroy the group held responsible. Afgan was run too run by people from there. Where do you think the Taliban came from, Mongolia? Sure the USA has gotten mixed up in things we probably sould not have, i.e. Vietnam, but every four years we elect a new president, all of which have different views and ideas on how to handle conflicts.
Let me ask you a question, do you think that in WW2 we should only have faught Japan or should we have entered earlier to stop the Nazi's? Because its the same thing.
If you don't like the US get out. I can't stand when people trash the country that gives them so much freedom and ability to choose for themselves.
Back to Osama. Yeah, him and I were climbing El Cap and as he was placing some protection, I "accidentally" pulled back on the release lever on my GriGri and Ooopps.
hehehehehe
spyder
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fiend
Aug 16, 2002, 5:20 PM
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"My father told me "Son it's futile to resist. You can topple the ideology but not the armies they enlist." I questioned the intentions of the boy scouts chanting "WAR!" "Well, that's the sound of freedom, son", he said (free to say no more). But wait a minute "dad", did you actually say freedom? Well, if you're dumb enough to vote, you're f---ing dumb enough to believe them. Because if this country is so goddamned free, then I can burn your f---ing flag wherever I damn well please." -Propaghandi
Welcoming with open arms and with open hearts, in the end they found their arms in shacles and their hearts torn out. This country named "America" is built on graves of the natives who lived here before, genocide took place. "America," means "Freedom" as in, "Free to kill the free....." -Anti-Flag
"At the Bill of Rights subrtact the wrongs, theres no answer. Memorize and sing star spangled songs. " -NOFX
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spydermonkey
Aug 16, 2002, 9:13 PM
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You like punk music don't you.
So what is your stance? Don't use lyrics.
spyder
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fiend
Aug 17, 2002, 1:28 AM
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warning! contains offensive language
North America is a joke.
Our governments stand up for our rights by reading our emails, tapping phones, testing biological weapons in the subway systems, trafficking drugs and much much more. Canada isn't as bad, but only because we don't have the resources and opportunity.
The entire system of government is corrupt and useless. Bush is owned by Enron. Big Oil makes the decisions that affect your lives.
The rich get richer and the poor are killing themselves off because some f---er wearing eight gold chains writes a song about how many bitches love him because he's in a gang.
People are getting fatter and stupider each day.
N. Americans (not so much Canadians) have no idea how they are percieved by the rest of the world. Many think that they are one of the most loved countries because they come to rescue everyone else when in reality those countries would often prefer the US to just butt the hell out because they probably had a hand in starting the trouble ...
[cough]Bin Laden[/cough]
[cough]Sandinistas[/cough]
Jason Priestly the pop icon gets in a car crash and it's on every god damned news station for 3 days. Galen and Barbara Rowell, world renowned photographers and artists... something the US should be proud of... get no mention.
News from around the world is sensored, edited and spoonfed to bend the wills of those watching towards whatever cause.
N. American is run by greed. Those who are cut-throats and step on everybody are applauded and promoted while those who are fair and honest are cut loose.
What's so great about this continent anyways? Where are your freedoms?
Know what the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is? The dictator is up front about bending you over and f---ing you up the ass.
Don't go to work on monday, or if you do then tear down your cubicle and throw your computer at an exec. Don't pay taxes. Don't listen to police, they're all corrupt or at least answering to corrupt bosses. Tell your senator to f--- off. Destroy your air conditioning. Roll down your god damn windows instead.
If you see anyone wearing gang colors, shoot them, the police won't take care of it, you'll have to. If you witness a crime, organize a mob and hunt the offender down, don't stand for that s--- in your neighborhood.
Vandalize government offices. Spraypaint your feelings across the offices of the IRS. Why are we paying for government officials to play golf?
Take action now.
To answer any future questions:
Yes, I did make a lot of assumptions, but even if 50% of what I just said is true then we're still in a crappy situation.
No I don't advocate killing, but I do believe in the phrase 'by any means necessary'
No, I don't take part in any anarchistic activities outlined above. Those types of things take masses, not just one person. There aren't enough cops in the country to handle all the citizens but there are enough to inflict their special brand of brutality on one offender... especially when there's five of them... and you're handcuffed.
*Edit: and yes, I do know that not all N. Americans are ignorant, stupid, fat and lazy. It's called generalizing, it makes your ranting sound more dramatic.
"murder the government" -NOFX
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2002-08-16 18:51 ]
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colin
Aug 17, 2002, 1:45 AM
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word.
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mrtristan
Aug 17, 2002, 6:50 AM
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dude, if you've traveled or lived in countries that are not first world, you'd realize how lucky "north americans" (which is stupid, b/c there's a lot of north america that isnt canada or the US...) are. if you want to not pay taxes and not work and stuff, move to a haven of security and freedom like algeria or colombia.
why is it that topics like this always turn into anti-US rants???
***********
ok, to return to the topic, yes, actually the taliban DID have tanks...
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justsendingits
Aug 17, 2002, 8:15 AM
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Nice job fiend,wish i could write like that!!!!!Nice to know that someone else is paying attention,we are not all fat sheep!!!!Your lucky you don't live here in Missouri,you would really freak on the follow the leader conformity,they eat it up with a spoon,GO RAMS,can't wait to hear the new Creed song!!That damn evil bin ladden,Good thing our president is not some spoiled rich kid from an oil family like bin laden,who is supported bty right wing fundy's,operates through clandestine organizations,has no respect for the democratic elctorial process,bombs inocents,and uses war to deny people their civil liberties!!!!!!
Like I have said before Spydermonkey,read Howard Zens,"the peoples history of the united states" It's an eye opener!!
I don't mean to come down on young people,cause some of them have more life experience than me.(but not many)But you youngsters have a lot to learn.When I was 20 years old,I was very paitriotic,and I was in the millitary in Germany,gaurding nukes!!!
I don't even know who that kid (me)was anymore!!--"if you don't like it leave"--do you know how many times I have heard this?That is the standard response from people,anytime you say something unpaitriotic!!Why don't we use that phillosophy for everything,get in an argument with your wife,leave her,get mad at your work,quit,get mad at your children,get rid of them!!!get mad at a climber,quit climbing,don't like what you read on this web site,quit comeing here--We should have the right to disaprove,how about this Spyder,if you don't like free speach,leave the country..
POWER TO THE PEOPLE~!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-08-18 06:31 ]
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wildtrail
Aug 17, 2002, 8:24 AM
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Skip the flaming of Bin Laden.
Just put a double barreled 12 guage shot gun up his ass, squeeze the trigger, and blow the top of his head off.
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justsendingits
Aug 17, 2002, 10:28 AM
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Ok Spyder,the Afgans were role model citizins when we supported them against the"evil empire"?---and then all of a sudden they turned into a "controling regime"? HAHAHAHAHA!!! you are funny!!
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist!!!
They were terrorists when we supported them.(Mouijahedeen),remember back in th e 80,s when the flavor of the month evil country was Iran??I did not think so,you and mrtrastan were still just a gleam in your dads eye!!
Anyway we hated the Iranians,I mean we really hated them!!! But yet we supported Islamic fundy's just a couple hundred miles away so we could break the back of the" evil empire".
You know that we started it all in Afaganastan with the Russians,we started funding these freaks there(the U.S. needed a new base in the east to fight the EVIL EMPIRE,they had lost Iran due to their support of the Shaw,who brutilized his people),and Russia was pressured.Im not saying they(Russia) should have invaded Afg. but if they were so evil and wanted to conquer the world,why did they not take over Afg. a long
time ago?
Afganastan was a cold warrior's wet dream,Imagine if the table was turned and the Russian KGB weere doing nasty things in Mexico in the 80s!!! the west is the ones who are all over the globe with millatary forces(basses,nukes)
Let me ask you this mrtrastan,you live in China,how many millitary basses does China have around the world,compared say, to the U.S.--? It's not even close,the west (NATO)has always been the most aggasive with spanning the globe with millitary basses!!!
No wonder China entered the war in Korea,that psyco Mcarther advanced all the way to the Yallow river,the border with China.Thats why he was relived of duty!!----Again,what would the U.S. have done if the chinese had advanced to the Rio grande?
Spyder,do you not see a pattern?The Shaw,Norieaga,Samoza,Allunde,Bin Ladden,Suddam,Castro,Suharto,these were once the darling boys of the white house!!!--Do you even know who they are?--Do your homework!!!--I don't knnow SHITE about history(but i do know it is always written by the winners)and you know less!!
Just remember,we helped create,or at least supported Bin ladden,they hated us back then,but not as much as Russia,because we wrer the ones giving them money!!!
And uh Spyder,bin ladden and almost all of the taliban that were in controll before we stuck it to them,were not from Afganastan.
Did you know there was a vote at the united nations a few years ago,the vote was on who were the country's thought to have the most freedom........................................America did not even make the top ten!!!!!!!
Don't belive the hype---Christoper Collumbas was a scondrull,burn your newspaper, USA today,it's a bunch of crap,!!!Read some of the international newspapers,and you will see what the rest of the world thinks of us,it opened my eyes last year in France.And yes,I have been to third world countrys,and it was nice,less greed ,nicer people,no guilt trip about being productive!!!mrtrastan,you think whoever does not want to work should leave this country?You said that in your post.!!! Um,like,most climbers would have to leave the country!!!
There is a quote I saw in the Quote thread on this site---"workers of the world unite,you have nothing to lose but your chains"
There are a bunch of guys sitting in the Pentagon,no better that Ol,Ben
[ This Message was edited by: justsendingits on 2002-08-18 05:27 ]
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fiend
Aug 17, 2002, 12:24 PM
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Back to Bin Laden, I don't want to hear another military superiority joke until he's caught. Bush goes on international television to basically say "I want him dead or alive" and then proceeds to not be able to find him.
There's nothing wrong with not catching him... unless you choose to brag about how inferior his army is.
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wildtrail
Aug 17, 2002, 7:18 PM
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Rich is right. Those people have always been terrorists. They have always been extremists. Their culture will always suck, as far as I am concerned. Terrorists breed terrorists. You can't take it out of them. It is the way they grow up, what they learn, and how they live. The Middle East will always be a band of wackos. If it wasn't for their screwed up religious beliefs and their even worse culture, perhaps they would be a nicer people. Many leave there to come here for a "better life" and that is admirable. What is left behind is trash.
Fiend. His Army is inferior. They just know how to hide. Personally, I have a feeling they know where he is, but because Bush Jr. is one of the worst presidents we will ever have, barring Nixon and Bush Sr., I have a feeling this little "war" is being dragged out to "poll" support if you know what I mean. Pun intended. Okay, okay. Conspiracy theory, but this government is built on them.
Personally, I don't think they will find him. The people won't turn him in and I think the presidents of the countries in question are obviously lying. They WANT to protect him so he can do it again.
Like I said, Nuke the f---ing place. I don't care anymore. It may be a shame to the rest of you, but I am an "eye for an eye" kind of person.
Steve
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justsendingits
Aug 17, 2002, 8:26 PM
Post #37 of 62
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An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind!!
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toobigtoclimb
Aug 18, 2002, 12:53 AM
Post #38 of 62
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"Look...do you know what a bully is? I don't like bullies." Chevy Chase to Howard Stern.
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spydermonkey
Aug 18, 2002, 3:26 AM
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Just~ I'm impressed. You write a lot. Can you name one evil person in the pentagon, by name and rank?
spyder
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eowyn1025
Aug 18, 2002, 3:48 AM
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ok guys, i'm sick of this and i frankly don't care a bit if i lose every friend i've made so far on this site b/c i say this. First of all, if you don't know a ____ about history, don't try to write about it. b/c you're just making yourself look ignorant. Second, learn how to spell. And third, here's what i have to say: I'm a military kid and you all can just lay off the military! If you all think you know so much about how to run a country, why don't you get off your rears and run for office?! If you think you know so much about where Bin Laden might be, then go find him! If you really knew history like a lot of you seem to think you do, you'd be able to see that the good ol' US of A has saved just about every major country in this world's rear-end at some point or another. That is pure fact, you can't argue with it and if you think you can, go back to college and take history of civilization. We are not fighting a uniformed army here...we're fighting terrorists, AKA people who look like any other average person but who do a lot more damage. The problem is that the general public thinks the military should be able to know exactly who the terrorists are w/in 24 hours of an attack or sooner....preferably before. Give me a break! Would someone like to give me a good strategy for finding that out?? This isn't the Revolution any more....we're not fighting Brits in bright red coats. we're fighting people who for all you know could be your next door neighbor. The men who actually carried out the 9/11 events lived here in the US under our very noses. Do you suggest we nuke the entire US as well as Afghanistan to rid the world of terrorists?? I think a lot of you are speaking out of total ignorance concerning this topic. Sure maybe some of you were in the military but as what? Unless you were involved in the Intelligence field (those who actually find the info on people like these terrorists) you have absolutely no room to talk. They know and deal with a lot more than other officers/enlisted men even know about. So you can respond back to me with your language filled rants...i really don't care. Most of you have no clue what you're talking about so you'd do yourself and everyone else a favor if you'd just stay silent on this.
End of story,
Gwen
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kriso9tails
Aug 18, 2002, 4:25 AM
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Quote: If you all think you know so much about how to run a country, why don't you get off your rears and run for office?!
If you don't know anything about politics then "don't try to write about it. b/c you're just making yourself look ignorant."
Saved every major country's arse? Are you delusional? I don't think Japan or Deutschland see it that way. Canada sure as hell doesn't see it that way, especially with that stupid NAFTA curse.
USA gives the LOWEST percent of their GDP to third world help out of the major countries that agreed to do so. The USA owes (or possibly owed) a ridiculous sum of money to the UN. USA is one of the worst countries in the world for pollution, mainly industrial. You're telling me that the United States cares oh so much about the rest of the World? Funny way of showing it.
Yeah the United States made a brief appearance at the end of both World Wars. Yeah money is given here and there. That's good, but don't bulls*** me about America the saviour, when it looks more like America the arms dealer, or America the PERPETUAL WAR MACHINE. Tell me, what's the longest period the les Etats Unis has gone without being involved in some sort of conflict?
I'm not saying that the US is evil, but it certainly is not a role model; especially when people have to die in Brazil so your country men can eat at a f***in' McDonald's.
There's enough problems internally in the USA: poor education, sub par health care, and a fairly high povertyu level. Why is it that so much money gets wasted on killing when you don't seem to have the money to help the living? I've been around the States and seen some of the ghettos (not the hard core stuff... just the fringes) and I've seen people living in trailers getting their cars tuned up in exchange for chickens. Why are y'all going overseas when you can't even deal with what's at home?
I really don't pay too much attention to the US of A, but I really can't figure that country out.
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colin
Aug 18, 2002, 4:53 AM
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America The Beautiful
It's somewhat off topic but that's the nature of threads like this. Worth the time for you to read it.
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wildtrail
Aug 18, 2002, 7:11 AM
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Rich,
Eye for an eye may leave this world blind, indeed. Bin Laden and his @#@@#!!! people deserve and atomic death as far as I am concerned.
Pull the weed and it grows again. Destroy the roots and it never comes back.
Not saying eliminate the whole race, but we need to stop being a super pussy...I mean...power and start at the root.
This country and its tactics are a joke!
What happened to our strength? Don't tell me its still there, cause that is bullshit!
Hey, don't get me wrong. Bin Laden and those like him, and those possibly like him are on my "okay to eradicate" list! Not all the third world people.
Steve
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wildtrail
Aug 18, 2002, 7:16 AM
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Oh. One thing. Before people get all offended...
Did you lose someone in that attack? I did. Two people as a matter of fact. So before you get all offensive about my hatered, think twice. Personally, I don't care if you are offended. Take offense in that, but until you know where I'm coming from, losing two people in that attack, you can go to hell!
Before any so called "patriots" get offended, this country IS a joke.
You want stories, talk to my grandfather. He knows what patriotism means. He lived it, he fought for it, he got shot for it! Three times!
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climber_dude
Aug 18, 2002, 10:37 AM
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hmm what do you think or or maybe even as long as his dead
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justsendingits
Aug 18, 2002, 12:31 PM
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Lets make a static sling out of his beard,daisy him in on it,give him all the slack,and make him take a factor 2 fall off Higher cathedral in Yos.
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fiend
Aug 18, 2002, 4:32 PM
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Quote:ok guys, i'm sick of this and i frankly don't care a bit if i lose every friend i've made so far on this site b/c i say this.
Gwen, I hope those of us who dissagree here can realize that we all have differing opinions and are just debating them. Anyone here who would call themselves your friend should still do so even though you have a different point of view. One of the nice things about N. America is that if you have a difference of opinion then you don't get shot for it, although if your opinion is voiced too loudly then you will be silenced... case in point: the FBI shut down the Rage Against The Machine bulletin board shortly after 9.11 because people were discussing government motives and exhibiting free thought.
Quote:
First of all, if you don't know a ____ about history, don't try to write about it. b/c you're just making yourself look ignorant.
I find that to be an ignorant statement. Not only the experts should be able to speak on a subject. Those of us that only know partial histories should be free to speak our minds without fear of reprisal and personal attack. This is how we learn.
Quote:
Second, learn how to spell.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Even though I sometimes type fast and make mistakemesi of mi ooobwn.
In reply to: And third, here's what i have to say: I'm a military kid and you all can just lay off the military! In reply to: Being a military kid does not make you an authority. I'll assume that it's your father who's in the military... but you speak as though you know how the military works from the inside but I can only see two real scenarios here: a) Your father is low ranking and is able to tell you everything about military life as he knows it, which honestly, isn't very much. Low ranking officers or grunts are generally told what they need to know and not a hell of a lot more. b) Your father is of high rank and tells you the same thing he tells those of lower rank. He keeps secrets from you and would never let you know exactly how things are because this would make him a traitor. This also shows your bias towards the military. Military kids either hate the institution because of what it does to their family or are enamored and proud of what daddy does to save his country. How can you expect to look at your situation with an open mind when you've been raised to believe something for so long? Quote: If you all think you know so much about how to run a country, why don't you get off your rears and run for office?! We don't claim to know so much about how to run a country, but there are some things that any idiot can see are just plain wrong. Also I dissagree with the entire system of government, it breeds corruption and has nothing to do with issues but rather with popularity. Those who do get off their asses and run for office (Jello Biafria) never get anywhere because it's those backed by the large corporations who are elected in the end.
Quote:
If you think you know so much about where Bin Laden might be, then go find him!
I don't have billions of dollars of technology at my disposal. I don't have millions of personnel to deploy. I don't issue 'dead or alive' warnings to terrorists! I am not a world super power. I don't make fun of how lame and weak the Taliban is.
Quote:
If you really knew history like a lot of you seem to think you do, you'd be able to see that the good ol' US of A has saved just about every major country in this world's rear-end at some point or another. That is pure fact, you can't argue with it and if you think you can, go back to college and take history of civilization.
Gwen, I hate to break it to you but there is no such thing as pure fact when it comes to history. The winner writes the history books and includes his biased view. Teachers teach to the curriculum which is handed down from the governement and filtered to a certain extent. A true scholar should know that you can never look at one side of the situation, you have to look at all of them. One university class will not hold all the answers.
Quote:
We are not fighting a uniformed army here...we're fighting terrorists, AKA people who look like any other average person but who do a lot more damage. The problem is that the general public thinks the military should be able to know exactly who the terrorists are w/in 24 hours of an attack or sooner....preferably before. Give me a break! Would someone like to give me a good strategy for finding that out?? This isn't the Revolution any more....we're not fighting Brits in bright red coats. we're fighting people who for all you know could be your next door neighbor.
This is very very true. Which is why I get so confused when people claim that terrorists are stupid and weak. It was very weak an innefectual of them to destroy the twin towers. They must have been stupid to hide under our noses. They must be stupid to not be caught now.
Oh and someone mentioned that they were just good at hiding... some people seem to have this sense of 'honor' when it comes to war. War is never honorable, pride is not an issue. Effectiveness is the only importance. Hiding is effective, wandering around the desert shooting camels is not. (sarcasm there)
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The men who actually carried out the 9/11 events lived here in the US under our very noses. Do you suggest we nuke the entire US as well as Afghanistan to rid the world of terrorists??
Amen. Nuking an entire country is not the answer.
Quote:
I think a lot of you are speaking out of total ignorance concerning this topic.
Getting philosophical, can any of us speak on any topic without ignorance? No one of us knows everything, but maybe if we each put our own little piece into the thought puzzle we can recognize a pattern to the whole.
Quote:
Sure maybe some of you were in the military but as what? Unless you were involved in the Intelligence field (those who actually find the info on people like these terrorists) you have absolutely no room to talk.
So you're saying that you have no right to rebut our statements because you are not intelligence either?
Quote:
They know and deal with a lot more than other officers/enlisted men even know about.
Exactly.
Quote:
So you can respond back to me with your language filled rants...i really don't care. Most of you have no clue what you're talking about so you'd do yourself and everyone else a favor if you'd just stay silent on this.
You have a very egotistical and superior tone here and I'm not sure how to respond to that. You seem to think that you are 'in the know' and that the rest of us are out of the loop because we're not in the military. You exhibit extreme bias (as we all do in various subjects) and attempt to state your theories as hard facts without really providing any evidence. If you make a statment like:
Quote:
If you really knew history like a lot of you seem to think you do, you'd be able to see that the good ol' US of A has saved just about every major country in this world's rear-end at some point or another. That is pure fact, you can't argue with it and if you think you can, go back to college and take history of civilization.
You better be damned well ready to make a nice long post explaining which countries the US as saved and how they did so, or at least have the humility to exhibit it as opinion.
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wildtrail
Aug 18, 2002, 5:51 PM
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Fiend,
You answers are much better. Gwen seems to think she knows all. Well, at least her post came across that way. Very, very well answered. Great points, as you actually have them.
Gwen,
Unless you are a "history" major, don't leap before you look. I constantly study around ten different subjects at all times. One of them being history.
Also, I don't care about the vote you gave me, but I want to mention something. I lost two very close friends in the Trade Center Bombings. I never said I wanted genocide. I was getting aggression out in a free forum and will continue to do so. We, as humans, are allowed this freedom. So I said nuke them. That still doesn't change the fact that I do not like their ___________ up culture, religion, and beliefs. I will never embrace a culture that looks at woman, to begin with, like lower life forms. Go ahead and defend the Arab race. They are full of ___________. Better yet, be a woman amongst their ranks. How does the idea of having your clitoris forcedly removed so you sexual pleasure is lessened so you don't cheat on your controlling, beating husband? Sound good? YES, they do that. And, that is only one thing. Not to mention, you run the risk of being killed (seriously) if you can't produce a child because it "shames" the husband's family.
Yeah, that may be their culture, but that doesn't change the fact that it is _________ up!
If it was my "patriotism" comment, then too bad. Patriotism is a dying, at best, idealism. It is also out-dated and, in my opinion, a silly thing. I'm a utilitarian, as someone so kindly pointed out in a different thread. I don't believe in being an "American". There is NO such thing. It is only a concept. I am German/Sicilian living in America. That is all. I believe in human kind, not country. As I said before, I would have been just upset if the attack had been in France, Denmark, China, etc.
Look before you leap. Don't assume you know more about something than someone else. Being an Army brat means absolutely nothing, outside of the fact that you may have traveled from new home to new home in your life. My wife was an Army brat and that even took her to Germany. I'll also make a generalization, correct me if I am wrong. You father is in the Army now (no pun intended), my grandfather fought in WWII. The generalization is this; Someone who fought for country would possibly know more about history (he's lived more) and would definitely know more about patriotism as it was an entire era of it from WWI all the way through to the end of WWII. He lived it. He fought for country, and got shot for country, then went back and fought again and got shot again. He did that THREE times because he believed in the war being fought, what it stood for, and what WOULD be accomplished. See what I mean?
I'll agree with Fiend. Mentioning spelling is a moot point at best, and basically just a flame due to being over emotional or aggressive. What does spelling have to do with it? I'm a writer by trade. I usually have many typos (or spelling errors if you want to call it that) and I throw proper grammar right out the window in these threads. I'm not writing an article, I am voicing opinion. Then again, opinion means editorial, and editorial means that grammar CAN go out the window. Not to mention, I have a good vocabulary, but can't spell worth a damn. Does this make me stupid? Someone that has gone through college, managed companies, reads and studies constantly? I may be no genius, but I'm not stupid.
Back to the original thread at hand.
I say we stake him down spread eagle, arms and legs, to the ground at the base of El Cap. Then start a rock fall from the top. This way he can see it coming for a while. Or better yet, instead of the rock fall, how about the old fire falls they used to do at Yosemite from Glacier Point? That would be better. Hot coals, flaming logs. OOOOOO, that would hurt!
Gwen,
Take advice that is hard for me to follow. Relax. This is an open forum and we need not make enemies amongst ourselves. I'll learn to relax someday. When my medication is right.
Steve
[ This Message was edited by: wildtrail on 2002-08-18 10:55 ]
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eowyn1025
Aug 18, 2002, 6:46 PM
Post #49 of 62
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Registered: Jul 27, 2002
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Wildtrail: i wasn't going to post again but i also hadn't read your and Fiend's responses so i think i must. First of all, I want to thank you both (Wildtrail and Fiend) for being well-written and fairly kind in your responses. No, spelling is not a big issue, but I guess I'm just a big one for being as well-written and well-spoken as you can be all the time. (obviously, i fall short on the well-spoken thing quite often, but i do try. ) I am not a history major, however I take as many history courses as I can and study it all the time because it has always been one of my first loves. So, I do know quite a bit about it and can speak with some (not complete) authority on many historical subjects. Also, to explain my experience with the military, my father was a high ranking officer in the NAVY involved in intelligence. He was a submariner. He did not tell my family any information that he was not permitted to tell (just so you can rest easy knowing my father was not a traitor). As for being biased...you might say I am, however, I would not go as far as to say it has affected my judgement. I know enough of what intelligence officers do to know how hard a job it is. I'm afraid the general American public expects them to know everything NOW and that's impossible! At least that's what it seems like....i've seen quotes in our papers by so many people who "just don't see why America didn't see the terrorist stuff coming" or "why don't we do something about terrorism?" We are doing something about terrorism! The thing is, fights like this take time b/c it's so hard to gain intelligence on them. I don't confess to know everything about the Military (and while I'm on this, I need to apologize for my high and mighty responses to a lot of these issues in the last post. I realize now after your feedback that i did sound like a know-it-all and I do not know everything by any means. I am aware of a lot of things but that doesn't give me a right to be arrogant. please accept my apologies.)...as i was saying, I don't know everything about the Military, but I do know enough from my dad, as well as many many many other men and women in the service, to know that they are doing the best they can. Granted, the US military isn't what it was, but I think that stems from issues other than those at hand which i will not bring up b/c it would start a full scale war. I'd be happy to share those opinions in a PM if you so care to hear them.
As for the US helping other countries: I will have a nice long post on that for you in a while Fiend...I'm going to go make sure all my info is as correct as can be and then take my time writing it all out as clearly as possible. You will have my explanation to that shortly. Quote:
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First of all, if you don't know a ____ about history, don't try to write about it. b/c you're just making yourself look ignorant.
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::quote:: I find that to be an ignorant statement. Not only the experts should be able to speak on a subject. Those of us that only know partial histories should be free to speak our minds without fear of reprisal and personal attack. This is how we learn. ::quote::
Fiend, you're right on that. I shouldn't have been so harsh on that one but let me clarify what i was trying to say: i was referring the the comment in an earlier post about "not knowing _____ about history, but...". My opinion is that if you want to appear credible, you shouldn't say things like that. b/c frankly, where i might have agreed with some of what was said historically, the statement that he didn't know about history made me question the validity of what he had previously said. i agree wholeheartedly that one should be able to discuss what they know freely, but do it confidently.
i'll be back soon,
Gwen
[ This Message was edited by: eowyn1025 on 2002-08-18 11:52 ]
[ This Message was edited by: eowyn1025 on 2002-08-18 11:55 ]
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eowyn1025
Aug 18, 2002, 6:50 PM
Post #50 of 62
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Registered: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 267
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something I forgot to add....I think these kinds of discussions are good for me in a way. You all are really making me think, and though i don't always do it in the most logical way, it's been good for me.
so thanx...anyway, back to the history thing...
gwen
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