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gene723
Mar 8, 2006, 4:12 PM
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yea, I just don't know what to do if such a thing occured - n00b at trad. I'm guessing I would just rappel off rappel rings when in Yosemite but what if they don't have any rappel rings nor any bolts - e.g., Lover's Leap in Tahoe?
are you supposed to finish the climb in the middle of the rain?
are you supposed to rappel back down to the last belay station and leave your pro behind?
what if the climb isn't straight up and is horizontal? how are you going to rappel? you would have to down climb a whole pitch or something?
I bought Freedom of the Hills and Accidents in North American Mountaineering but haven't checked it out yet.
If anyone could recommend a guide that would be awesome.
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macherry
Mar 8, 2006, 4:23 PM
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where are you planning on climbing........that might help someone recommending a guide.
even if you read FOTH, you might want to practice all this stuff before you go on a multip-pitch
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mother_sheep
Mar 8, 2006, 4:23 PM
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It really depends on how many pitches you have left, if there is thunder and lightning and how willing you are to leave your rack on the route to get down. I've been on several routes where the safest way to get off was to finish the climb and then do the walk off. I've also been on a couple of routes where we had to rig own rap stations or rap down several pitches already equipped with anchors to get off. Also, depending on how many pitches you have left and the severity of the storm, you may be able to hunker down until it passes. Your options depend upon the situation you are in. Just remember to keep a cool head.
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overlord
Mar 8, 2006, 4:25 PM
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that would depend on the route and your abilities. if youre midpitch and dont want to leave gear, then climb. you can aid because free ascent is no longer a question. if you dont mind leaving some gear, make an anchor mid pitch, lower and clean the rest of the gear. non-cam protection comes handy in this cases because its cheaper than cams.
as for what to do after you reach the belay, you can either decide to go ahead, to retreat or to sit it out depending on which is the easiest and safest. and making the right decision comes with experience because each such case is unique.
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ridgeclimber
Mar 8, 2006, 4:26 PM
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The answer, as usual, is:
....it depends!
I've finished multi-pich routes in light rain. It's actually kinda fun. cools things off on a hot day. If you're on a lighting-sensitive spot during a thunderstorm, get the hell out of there. You can do a traversing rappel. Try tension traversing, or in super traversing terrain maybe you can clip the rap ropes into gear to keep you from taking a nasty pendulum fall. Usually this isn't necessary though.
Also, you can't learn to judge whether you should turn back by reading FotH.
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mother_sheep
Mar 8, 2006, 4:30 PM
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One more thing. Make sure you know how to use prussics and/or carry ti-blocs (which can be very rough on your rope). They can be most helpful if your desicion is to keep going.
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tarzan420
Mar 8, 2006, 4:34 PM
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as in any situation in climbing, you have two choices: finish the climb, or bail.
(there is option number three: try and wait it out, but this is not necessarily a good idea unless you're really prepared for it).
Finish the climb: in really bad weather, style goes out the window. Pull on gear, take an easier variation, etc. basically, do whatever you have to in order to get up and off.
Bail: sometimes the rock dictates that this isn't possible. if it is possible, it may involve finishing the pitch in the rain, lowering off your high piece, rapping the route on bolted anchors, rapping the route on gear anchors (ie. leaving gear behind), rapping off of the route on ? anchors, etc.
bottom line, use that thing between your shoulders (no, not your neck), and figure it out - every situation will be different, no book will tell you how to do it - they may give you ideas, but what you actually do is all situational.
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j_ung
Mar 8, 2006, 4:56 PM
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Me personally? I cower in terror. The fetal position helps keeps me warm. :lol:
Seriously though, I think the best point made is that it's highly situational. So many factors; there really isn't a right answer without a specific set of circumstances to evaluate, and even then, there certainly aren't any guarantees.
But I will say this, when retreating from or climbing into a sudden storm or even just waiting it out, your biggest enemy probably isn't the storm. More likley it's you. Your stress level will probably be extremely high, so regardless of what you do, you have got to keep a cool head, evaluate the situation rationally and once you make a decision on which way to go (or not), don't be overly hasty in action. Mistakes under stress will kill you.
Thankfully, I only live at the New and I'm just a cragger, so I don't have to make those decisions. :D
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keithlester
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Mar 8, 2006, 5:04 PM
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you get wet
seriously, if you arent sure what your gonna do if it rains, you arent ready for big routes yet. This is when you discover you can climb better than you thought, cos you maybe gotta, or else you discover why climbing is dangerous, and you have a bad day.
My advice, if its likely to be wet, stick to short routes until you are confident about retreating and/or climbing in the wet.
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keithlester
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Mar 8, 2006, 5:05 PM
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you get wet
seriously, if you arent sure what your gonna do if it rains, you arent ready for big routes yet. This is when you discover you can climb better than you thought, cos you maybe gotta, or else you discover why climbing is dangerous, and you have a bad day.
My advice, if its likely to be wet, stick to short routes until you are confident about retreating and/or climbing in the wet.
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davidji
Mar 8, 2006, 5:14 PM
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Like everyone says, you either you finish climbing or you bail. To bail, you can rap, walk off, or downclimb, depending on the situation.
In addition to rain, consider snow (which means the rock is pretty cold), hail (which means thunder & lightning is likely), and thunderstorms (which means you could die).
Some routes are easy to bail from, some are difficult or require you to leave a lot of gear. Sometimes the only appealing way to get down is by finishing the climb.
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edge
Mar 8, 2006, 5:20 PM
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Great responses here so far.
The one thing I will add applies to bailing with no established rap stations: Gear is cheap, as long as you live another day. Stores are full of cams, stoppers, biners, etc.
The annual book "Accidents in North American Climbing" contains many people who did not realize this.
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aimeerose
Mar 8, 2006, 5:33 PM
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Cry :cry:
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olderic
Mar 8, 2006, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: Great responses here so far. Stores are full of cams, stoppers, biners, etc. |
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ridgeclimber
Mar 8, 2006, 5:41 PM
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One more thing to be aware of. Wet ropes lose some of their stretch. I wouldn't recommend climbing over marginal gear if it's raining. But again, it depends on your situation.
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edge
Mar 8, 2006, 5:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Great responses here so far. Stores are full of cams, stoppers, biners, etc. So are the cliffs the morning after a late afternoon thunderstorm.
Precisely the reason why I have not had to buy a full sized cam, rap ring, or leaver biner in 18 years.
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kachoong
Mar 8, 2006, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: Me personally? I cower in terror. The fetal position helps keeps me warm. :lol:
....I'd probably whip out the umbrella.... that's what the little loop on the chalk bag is for....
In reply to: Your stress level will probably be extremely high, so regardless of what you do, you have got to keep a cool head, evaluate the situation rationally and once you make a decision on which way to go (or not), don't be overly hasty in action. Mistakes under stress will kill you.
In reply to: Gear is cheap, as long as you live another day.
:righton:
Great advice!
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dingus
Mar 8, 2006, 5:59 PM
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We're so light these days (me most of all, ok, light in the balls at least).
Our forefathers mostly didn't run away from a little precip. Shit, read the stories of the conquest of the Alps. Such was the competition they climbed in weather that killed them.
The Brits are masters of wet rock. Obviously a lot of factors play into it, but wet rock is totally climbable.
Chouinard used to make a point of doing routes in 'full conditions.' Rock routes in the rain, ice climbs in snow storms, taking on peaks in winter in their worst imaginable conditions. He did this 40 years ago, with gear that would have us running for the health spa.
If climbing in bad weather scares you (it should, it dangerous), don't do it. Don't start up routes in questionable weather, for starters. Keep your eye on the clouds as you climb. Select routes with bail potential.
But if you commit to a route that requires completion for escape, you simply have no choice but to either keep climbing or hunker down.
Lastly, 2 Octobers ago, several parties started up El Cap in fine weather. A big Guld of Alaska storm was 5 days out, well forcasted in fact, to slam into California. It did just that.
A team of Japanese climbers were trapped in the upper dihedrals of the Nose route ill-prepared. They went for the top and perished on the last pitch, the last sighting of them was the husband using his body to shield his wife from a freezing waterfall hitting their ledge directly. Its a terribly sad story made even more sad by the fact this accident occured 30 years almost to the day that the first party died on the Nose, in similar weather, on the same pitch, also Japanese climbers.
Several other parties rode out the worst of the storm and either self rescued, topped out or were plucked off by SAR. Some of these people had more than 30 wall routes beneath their boots, highly experienced climbers.
I think it is very healthy to keep that memory alive and to ponder the lessons they may hold for each of us.
Me? I am entirely unwilling to cast my fate to the gods like that. I don't get on long routes in unsettled weather, and really never did. There are those who can and do, made of much sterner stuff than me, and more talented too. Some of them anyway. There are plenty of fools who head up into bad weather and tough it out too.
DMT
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epoch
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Mar 8, 2006, 6:00 PM
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The CORRECT thing to do is whip out that $200 cell phone and call the sherrif's department for that area. Let them know that you are stuck X pitches up and deem that it is reasonably unsafe for you to climb out and furthermore that it will be too costly to leave gear in place to lower. Include that you were, too, underprepared and didn't have the foresight to bring bivvy gear and don't want to be another epoch in the news.
^That's towards the top on worst case scenario...
Like stated. It really depends on allot of factors. YOUR expierence. Whether to top out or bail. IMHO gear is replacable, my and my friend(s) lives would be roughly worth it. Although think of the story to be told of an incredible epoch if you were to hold out for better weather???
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gene723
Mar 8, 2006, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: where are you planning on climbing........that might help someone recommending a guide.
I planned on climbing at South Lake Tahoe this weekend but it's going to rain like a mofo so I guess that's out of the picture.
Last time I was at the Leap going up Corrugation the clouds started gathering and it was supposed to rain but it didn't.
lucky I guess (not doing that again)
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tim
Mar 8, 2006, 7:14 PM
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At the bottom? Bail. Near the top? Finish and descend, or if it's really grim, bivy. No sense freezing to death if you can wait it out. If you can't, keep moving so you stay warm. The Leap is pretty featured and would not be hard to bail from; I might rap it just to avoid the walkoff/scramble in a rainstorm.
If you get caught in shitty weather at the Leap, just leave some nuts at the belay you're bailing from. You'll end up with more janky booty nuts than you know what to do with if you stick with the sport -- I probably have 60-70 nuts. Most of the time that I booty something I end up giving it away. Don't worry too much about leaving nuts or tat to bail off of, you'll find more and tat is cheap. (Do, however, cut old tat and clean up unnecessary anchors as you come across them. Litter is litter, and the right thing to do is to pick it up.)
Corrugation is a fun little climb and totally worth doing. It could be miserable in a rainstorm; I wouldn't head up to the Leap if the forecast said there was a high chance of rain. On the other hand, if you always believe the forecast you'll have trouble getting up anything significant.
Just don't buy the ticket if you aren't ready to take the ride. ;-)
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epoch
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Mar 8, 2006, 7:21 PM
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Tahoe sits in an unusual weather vaccume. I lived in Reno for a better part of my life, Go Prepaired For weather even if it is sunny and warm. Also freak, FREAK, storms show up this time of year. It all has things to do with the air welling up off the valley to the mountains.
Ending note: The Leap is nice in weather, mainly due to the fact that is is a quick 4-5 pitches. And bailing is simple there. Leave only what is necessary for you to make it SAFELY down. If you're near the top SAFELY hurry up and out. The trees make for a decent weather break.
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spyork
Mar 8, 2006, 7:37 PM
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08/05/05
My friend Alex and I were on West Country, Stately Pleasure Dome, Tuolumne Meadows. I saw the gathering storm and I was gently urging him to hurry up (ok, maybe not gently). We hustled up and started descending. Rain drops were falling on the granite descent slabs. I was starting to get nervous. Go faster and fall on the slabs, go slower and the slabs get wet, and I fall anyway. I finally get to the base, and put on my tennies. The rain started dumping, BIG TIME.
I run to my car, and Alex and I throw in gear and jump in. There were people on the route, 2 parties. They were sitting in a freakin river at a belay station, water gushing over them. Then the rain got harder, it started hailing. It started getting scary where I was parked from the traffic so we got the hell out. I learned later they left gear and rapped off. No one got hurt.
The parties on the wall had plenty of time to see the storm approaching from the front side of the dome. I was watching the same storm from higher up and I was scared. I carry a light waterproof windbreaker. Good idea IMO. Pay Attention! Thats the best thing you can do, keep aware of your environment.
If was wasnt in a hurry, I would post a pic of a shot of the eastern portion of the dome with waterfalls cascading off.
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anykineclimb
Mar 8, 2006, 7:39 PM
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I think everyone is neglecting one very important point.
rain/ bad weather USUALLY doesn't just appear out of the blue sky.
PAY ATTENTION to your surrounds. if you're local, you'll get used to your areas weather trends (like some have mentioned here) and able to predict it. Know when the afternoon storms roll in. check weather before weekend trips. You can get fancy and carry a Suunto and check for a drop in barometric pressure.
Seeing approaching clouds, you should already begin to decide if you'll press on at a faster rate or retreat while you can.
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iltripp
Mar 8, 2006, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: where are you planning on climbing........that might help someone recommending a guide. I planned on climbing at South Lake Tahoe this weekend but it's going to rain like a mofo so I guess that's out of the picture. Last time I was at the Leap going up Corrugation the clouds started gathering and it was supposed to rain but it didn't. lucky I guess (not doing that again)
If I remember correctly, weather at the Leap can catch you unaware as the clouds rushing in are obscured by the cliff. However, the Leap is not that tall, and most of the routes there can be done in 2-3 pitches (i think), so you should be able to finish the route or bail relatively quickly.
If there is no threat of lightning and you are near the top, I would probably finish the climb. However, I would hesitate to move higher than you already are if lightning is going to be a serious danger.
If you do have to bail, you can do so without having to leave too much gear. Build anchors with nuts or look for the occasional rap station and you can probably get down with minimal gear loss.
In other words (as many have already said), the decision to finish the climb or bail in bad weather is entirely situational and requires you to evaluate many factors:
How difficult is the climb and compared to your ability level?
Just how bad is the weather?
Is there thunder and lightning?
Is there snow and ice (a possibility in the sierras, even in summer)?
How high up are you and how near the top (i.e. what is quickest escape)?
Do you have two ropes or one (at the Leap you'll probably have one)?
Are there rap stations?
Do you have enough gear to bail?
The most important thing is to keep your head about you and not make stupid mistakes. Being freezing, scared, and unprepared on the side of a cliff can be very stressful and fatal mistakes are easy to make. Be quick and efficient, but be smart, deliberate, and careful as well.
One last option that deserves attention is to hunker down and wait the storm out. I would almost always prefer to get down as quickly as possible, but sometimes waiting may be the safest (or only) solution.
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