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knowsam
Mar 5, 2006, 2:50 AM
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Anyone use a 4 season single wall bivy tent all year round? I looked at a bunch of single walled tents that seem good for the worst weather, but how do they do in the +0 C weather? All the tents seem like they'd be hot and not as good as a 3 season tent. As these tents run at $400 plus, I'd like a tent that I can use year round in the Canadian Rockies weather.
I'm not looking for a specific recommendation, though those are welcome, just experiences with them in general. Generally I'm looking at the Eldorodo, I-Tent, MH E-2, Lighthouse - you get the idea.
Cheers Sean
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builttospill
Mar 5, 2006, 3:11 AM
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I've never used one of these tents in spring/summer conditions. However, I would suggest considering purchasing a separate tent for your summer trips. Here's why:
First of all, it will be more suitable as you already know.
Second, they are significantly lighter. You can get a relatively lightweight summer backpacking tent for pretty cheap and it will be lighter than a high end bombproof mountaineering tent.
Third, you want to put as little use on your "nice" tent as possible, especially use where it's not necessary. I'd rather buy two tents now, one expensive and one cheaper and have them both last for 5-6 years or whatever, than buy a new winter tent in 3 years because I used it year round and put more use on it. But that's just me.
I don't do winter mountaineering where I overnight....I don't climb big enough routes or anything like that. But I have a relatively pricey lightweight backpacking tent. It's roomy enough for two and I like it. But I still break out the shitty old tent for car camping, because there's no point abusing my backpacking tent when it's not necessary.
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climbingaggie03
Mar 5, 2006, 4:51 AM
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I've used a Mountain Hardware Mountain Jet 3 during the summer before. It was ok, but not nearly as nice as an all mesh tent. My reccomendation is to either get two tents that excell at what they do i.e. an ultra lightweight summer tent, and an ultra bomber winter tent.
Or get a standard 3 season tent and use it year round. I've got a north face pebble which is a normal summer 2 person tent with a mesh body and 2 poles. It's taken big snow loads (2 feet one night in the sierra's) 40 mile an hour winds at the pit in bishop, and tons of summer trips in minnesota/wisconsin mosquito country, and handled everything without ever worrying me about it's stability. It also only weighs 4.25lbs which is lighter than almost any 2 man 4 season tent. I wouldn't take it on a big expedition, but it has taken more abuse than I ever thought possible.
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rongoodman
Mar 5, 2006, 4:02 PM
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I've used an Eldorado for a number of fall trips to the Tetons, worked like a charm.
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knowsam
Mar 5, 2006, 11:19 PM
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Thanks for the replies so quickly. I'd thought about getting a light weight 3 season tent but b/c they need a fly and all that other stuf to stay water proof most that I've come across are heavier that a single wall 4 season. While I'd like to get more into winter mountaineering I'm not so good that I'm there yet. Really I'm most likely to be doing summer mountianeering or mid 5th alpine climbs. Can you recommend a really lightweight 3 season tent that'll do that well (needs to hold up to snow and torrential rain b/c there is both all year round in the Rockies). I was thinking that for summer over-nighters I'd go for a bivy sac and get the tent for longer trips or really miserable weather.
Thanks Sean
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climbingaggie03
Mar 7, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Well, it all depends, correct me if I'm wrong, but your looking for a tent that will:
1. take high winds and the occasional snow load
2. have enough room for two people to sit out a storm in
3. Ventilate well
4. weigh between 4-5.5 lbs
5. have enough vestibule space to cook in if necessary and store gear
6. be durable enough to last through at least a couple of seasons
well, I would look for a tent that has as much room as possible, and has 3 poles. 3 poles will help it stand up to wind and snow. 2 poles will work, but 3 would be stronger. here are a few suggestions in ascending price.
The north face Tephra ~5lbs
http://www.thenorthface.com/...p?site=NA&model=AZC9
the REI sub alpine ~5lbs
http://www.rei.com/product/47838328.htm
The Mountain hardwear skyledge 2 4.0-4.5 lbs
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/...cat=48&viewAll=False
That's all I found right off the bat, there are probably more tents out there that will get the job done, and I saw a lot of good prices on good looking tents at campmor. I don't have any first hand experience with any of these tents, the north face tent looks pretty similar to the one I have, but they look like the kind of tent I would go for if I wanted to do what you are doing.
also keep in mind that IF bugs won't be an issue, or if you don't mind dealing with them, there is always the option of leaving the tent body behind which saves weight, and gives you more access to all the room under the fly.
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kixx
Mar 9, 2006, 2:45 AM
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You've got the right idea with the bivy sack. In the mountains it's best to replace gear with skill... up to your comfort level and experience.
Practice making snow shelters for winter - I never take a tent or bivy in winter, instead I have an Epic shell bag that has no problem shedding snow and freezing rain.
I used to take a 3 season for the rest of the year but I've since switched to a tarp with a mylar floor if it looks like rain. Most of the time it's just the Epic shelled bag out in the open, it will hold off a light rain, and with some skillful placement with the tarp a driving rain is no problem.
Keep in mind that all these solutions are for base camp situations. If I'm bivying on a ledge I use a 3 season solo tent which has more room to cook etc. and breathes better than a bivy when the precipitation is coming in sideways and the spindrift is incessant. Also keep in mind this really needs to be vented when you're cooking, which by the way is not recommended.
Experience only comes from experience, so keep re-evaluating your system
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iceisnice
Mar 9, 2006, 5:03 PM
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i almost never use a tent anymore. just bivy. its a lot less weight to carry around and it'll cost ya very little.
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knowsam
Mar 10, 2006, 3:09 AM
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Hey,
Thanks for all the replies. Could of more questions for you:
How do the bivis sacs handle lots of rain?
Do you all take tarps to cook under?
How much warmth does a bivi add to a bag?
I'd like a small +5-0 C synthetic sleeping bag and I'll wear some insulation if its colder, is that enough for cooler summer nights in the alpine?
Sean
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kixx
Mar 12, 2006, 11:27 PM
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I used to live close to the Wild Things outlet/store in North Conway and got most of my early ideas from them then refined them to what i was doing.
I've never had a bivy leak, neither the wild things or a cheap generic brand.
Instead of taking a tarp to cook under I cook in the vestibule of my solo tent which I have rigged to set up with trekking poles / ice axe. (not recommended by the safety freaks out there b/c of fire danger.) Since the solo tent I no longer bring the bivy.
In a group the larger tarp systems work very well (BD megamid, Golite pyramid, etc.) for cooking under (I have seen them stand up to some very storms on Rainier and Denali after being properly anchored and sheltered)
The bivy does add some warmth but not a significant amount in my experience... with a condensation problem.
Wearing insulation in your bag is a great idea that more people should do... just make sure the bag in plenty big. I can get my 20F (7C) bag down to 10 below with all my insulation on.
You also might want to try a light vapor barrier bag (sold as a "survival" bivy, but any large plastic bag will work just as well) This will make a tremendous difference with the downside being that all the moisture released by your body at night will leave you wet by morning... but if you just wear a thin base layer in the sack and put all your insulated clothes over the vapor barrier you can slip into them when you get out and be dry in no time.
Try it.
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adnix
Mar 13, 2006, 9:05 AM
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.. see below ..
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landongw
Apr 10, 2006, 2:06 AM
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I also use a bivy/tarp 95% of the time. I recommend gore dryloft over goretex, as it's more breathable and entirely waterproof. If you're using a down sleeping bag condensation can definitely be a problem. If the weather is generally warm you can dry out your bag during the day, and for short trips you'll have nothing to worry about. I have however gotten caught in some long summer snows, wet and heavy, that lasted for days while i waited for it to clear up. after about three days of it my bag was soaking from condensation and i shivered all night long, so i hucked it out 20 miles in one day. I would definitely advise vapor barrier liners for spring or winter trips.
in the winter use a lightweight single wall, i have the i-tent, which is awesome, simple and bomber. instead of condensation on my bag it's on the walls, which i can daub off with a hand sized camp towel if it gets out of hand. another option is to hang a thin plastic sheet over your chest at night to relegate the condensation to a small portion of the tent ala nemo tenshi style. (check out the nemo tenshi)
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adnix
Apr 10, 2006, 9:44 AM
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In reply to: Generally I'm looking at the Eldorodo, I-Tent, MH E-2, Lighthouse - you get the idea.
In general I find the tent a very good bargain in between weight and usability. It's a tent you can carry on route for the bulk of two bivy sacks. I'm going to buy a new one once I get money fixed.
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montaniero
Apr 16, 2006, 3:47 AM
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Vince Anderson and Steve House used a BD Firstlight on their Piolet d'Or route on the Rupal Face. So there you go, TESTED AND PROVED on the biggest alpine wall in the world. Is that enough?
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