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euroford
Mar 14, 2006, 3:04 PM
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I'm curious about what methods yall use to stay tied into the rope while biving on your portaledge. i don't predect i'll get a good nights sleep laying in my yates bigwall, so i'll have to come up with something else. since our climb is on the diamond, i'm quite sure we'll be spending some quality time on the ledge drinking beer and avoiding the weather. In fact we plan to be more or less in the bivy and done with climbing for the day shortly after noon.
I've read that many just use a webbing swami belt or swiss seat, i don't think i would feel very comfortable with that. i know a swami belt would prevent me from taking a ride into the afterlife, but having survived that then what? it doesn't leave you in a very good position to respond to what may be a fairly desperate problem. I was actually thinking about buying a BD alpine bod harness and trimming off the gear loops. it seams to me that it would be easy to get in and out of this while remaining tied in, will be comfortable and will allow the utility of a 'real' harness if you needed to get into action.
or maybe i'm just putting to much thought into things.
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holdplease2
Mar 14, 2006, 4:28 PM
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Hey Euroford:
That's a great question. You may actually find that you are so wiped out that you'll just remove your leg loops and crash in your swami.
It is possible to get tossed out of your ledge or have to exit quickly, though its rare, such as:
* Rain is coming, time to deploy the fly and secure everything - Probably better to do this the first few times in a sturdy harness or at least swami
* If you are solo on a double ledge, a wind gust can dump you our if you aren't tied down (you usually won't be).
* Your partner f-s up and gets out of the ledge for business and something goes wrong.
I don't recommend anything but the safest thing, but here's what I do:
1) Girth hitch 2 daisies around my waist, with a biner thru the ends and into some of the holes so it can't cinch me in half (ugh) or slip off. These daisies are clipped with lockers into a 8 on a bight on the end of the rope.
2) Shorten my safety line with an alpine butterfly so that I don't go like 25 feet ifI come out of the ledge.
3) Have my "into the powerpoint" knot so that if I do come out, I'm plum to the pigs and can just climb up them to get back to the ledge. Or you can put your powerpoint just above your head in your ledge clip-in point, you will be able to get back in the ledge from there.
But you probably won't fall out in the first place. :)
My first 3-4 walls I just fell asleep in my harnees because I just was too tired to take it off. It didn't bother me much.
Hope this helps. You better make a great photo essay on your first wall and post up a suhweeet TR! :) :) :)
-Kate.
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sspssp
Mar 14, 2006, 5:09 PM
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Euroford,
Have you spent a night on a bivy ledge? If you haven't, I would recommend you and your partner find a good tree (or whatever), set it up (5' or so off the ground) and spend the night. Do a late diner, have some beers, and fix breakfast.
It's good practice and beats having one of those "Oh sh!t moments" at 13,000 feet.
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 12:34 AM
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thanks for all the good tips!
you had me thinking about it, and since i hadn't had reason to try already i praticed getting in and out of my yates legloops a couple of times. thankfully that proved to be no big deal. I have the 'old skool' loops with the velcro closure, upgrading that is on my list of "stuff i'll do after i take care of the necessary stuff".
i'd be pretty certain that i'd find myself crashing in my swami belt, if not for the fact that in all likelyhood we'll probobly find ourselves stormed into the ledge every day sometime between 12:00 and 2:00pm. meaning we are going to have to spend allot of time goofing around in the ledge. i guess i might as well get comfortable yaknow. the storms frequently move through fairly quick, so we could always get back out and climb in the evening. but chances are we'll opt for food and beer unless we are running behind schedule.
i'll pick up a BD alpine bod this weekend and give it a test re: ease of installation. i think it might also work good for the descent where we'll have raps and want to be ropped up, but beyond the necessitie of needing a comfy harness.
after we aquire our ledge, we'll definitly have to probobly try it out on the side of my house. i have a couple of bolts sunk into the brickwork for just such silliness. my wife and neighbors already think i'm nuts, we'll just make sure they know. the sad thing is, we'll probobly have a blast...
i'm all about avoiding oh shit moments. especially becouse the climb starts above 13,000.....
a trip report will definitly be forthcomming. success or failure. we've done a pretty bad job of taking photos the last couple of years, this year we are making it a goal. even plan to bring the vid cam up the wall.
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hosh
Mar 15, 2006, 12:58 AM
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Unless I'm mistaken, you can't remove a BD alpine bod and still be tied in... But I've never tried... Perhaps you could drop the leg loops, that might be what you're thinking about, eh?
hosh.
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golsen
Mar 15, 2006, 2:01 AM
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[quote="euroford"] In fact we plan to be more or less in the bivy and done with climbing for the day shortly after noon.
In reply to: dude. i am old school so you have to cut me some slack. but first you spray about how you are going to climb your first wall. (an old school no-no). Then it just happens to be on the diamond. ok. And now you are going to quit at noon? So lets say the sun hits up there at 5-6ish in the summer, takes an hour to warm things. You are giving yourself what, 5 hours of climbing per day on your first wall? Lots of folks have given you good tips. But the diamond aint gonna cooperate all the time and youd best climb when you can as fast as you can. Ifn you plan on doin a wall where you are lokin at a slow ascent youd best go to Yos or Zion. I am surprised that others dont try and give you a gut check. Good Luck.
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styndall
Mar 15, 2006, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In fact we plan to be more or less in the bivy and done with climbing for the day shortly after noon. dude. i am old school so you have to cut me some slack. but first you spray about how you are going to climb your first wall. (an old school no-no). Then it just happens to be on the diamond. ok. And now you are going to quit at noon? So lets say the sun hits up there at 5-6ish in the summer, takes an hour to warm things. You are giving yourself what, 5 hours of climbing per day on your first wall? Lots of folks have given you good tips. But the diamond aint gonna cooperate all the time and youd best climb when you can as fast as you can. Ifn you plan on doin a wall where you are lokin at a slow ascent youd best go to Yos or Zion. I am surprised that others dont try and give you a gut check. Good Luck.
I'm pretty sure that he's just quite sensibly counting on there being rain/sleet/hail/lighting/thunder/plagues of locusts/rivers of blood every afternoon, as is common on Colorado peaks every day all summer.
Though maybe you're just the kinda guy who likes to climb through a thunderstorm.
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 3:07 AM
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In reply to: I'm pretty sure that he's just quite sensibly counting on there being rain/sleet/hail/lighting/thunder/plagues of locusts/rivers of blood every afternoon, as is common on Colorado peaks every day all summer.
see, he gets it.
believe me, if the good weather gods shine on us, we'll take full advantage of it. but its an alpine wall and i'm prepairing a conservative battle plan that takes the worst case scenerio into consideration. thanks for the tips buddy, but i'll let mother nature rain on my parade, not yourself.
wait for the sun to come up and get warm? now thats just sillyness. it'll be my lunchtime before that happens.
anyways, this is getting into thread drift. if you wanna talk about the diamond climb, do it in the diamond thread. i only brought it up to make the point that it will probobly make sense for me to get comfortable.
Kate pm'd me about my Bod idea, and i think she basicly talked me out of it. seamed like a good idea, but maybe not worth the trouble.
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texplorer
Mar 15, 2006, 5:10 AM
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I just sleep in my yates harness, no problem
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sspssp
Mar 15, 2006, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: I just sleep in my yates harness, no problem
After a hard day of hauling (and a beer), I've never had a problem sleeping in a ledge with a harness either [at least when the weather was cooperating].
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crotch
Mar 15, 2006, 6:09 PM
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1) Compared to hanging for hours at a time, lying on a ledge in your harness will feel like paradise.
2) Compared to sleeping in a bed or even on bare ground, sharing a ledge with someone is not comfortable. Harness & gear loops will be a minor irritation compared to your partner's stinky feet in your face.
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timmy_t
Mar 15, 2006, 6:20 PM
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Dude, listen to Golsen. On the Diamond in the summer you have to go fast. The summit isn't the only place you can get hit by lightning. And are you really going to bring beer? Who the hell is carrying it? If you need to then bivy on broadway, and then punch it out in a day. You can spray me all you want because I won't check back here for a long time, but you guys are in over your heads and relying on a gross amount of luck.
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 10:39 PM
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is this like reverse psychology encouragment? anyways, its working.
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golsen
Mar 16, 2006, 12:19 AM
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In reply to: is this like reverse psychology encouragment? anyways, its working.
Not trying to rain on your parade (I am sure the chance of that will improve the longer you spend on the wall). The comments come from some bad and some good experiences on Mt Hooker and the Diamond spanning almost 30 years of climbing.
This is how we did it on Mt. Hooker over 20 years ago. 7 days of intermittent rain in a 9 day trip.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=50042
And yes, I for shore kept my harness on for that one...
Good Luck...
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kricir
Mar 16, 2006, 12:29 AM
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two harnesses, I (assume stove), food, water, (for more than one day), ledge, BEER! bivi gear, full aid rack. wow, you are going to have allot of fun on the approach!
I also plan on attempting the Diamond as my first wall this summer, but with a completely different strategy. I was thinking, leave car at 1:00 am, and summit by 11-12 ish, and run the hell off down the N. face. Get home by, say 4 or 5, then break out the brew-skis! But then again, I live like 40 min. away, so I will probably do a recon trip up the first pitch or so, making it possible by head lamp on the real go.
The Diamond is a wall, I guess, at 1,000 ft, but it first and most of all it is an alpine climb, In mid summer, I can set my watch by the rain storms. Several competent climbers have met their end on the Diamond due to lightning. Remember that rain water also means rock fall. Speed is safety man. Good luck, stay safe.
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climbhigher
Mar 16, 2006, 1:55 AM
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The Diamond Cirque is an awsome place. I always feel lots of energy up there. Keep your heads up and have fun.
One other thing. U get bonus points when u send being from and living in the Midwest. Is devils lake good training ground? Would like to climb there sometime.
Chris.
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euroford
Mar 16, 2006, 2:14 AM
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In reply to: Is devils lake good training ground? Would like to climb there sometime.
in a way it is a great training ground, as the rock is frictionless, the ratings are sandbagged, the pro can be tricky and all the routes (at least the ones worth doing) are very steep. to this point, its made us feel very solid out west. Its a little harder to call it a good aid training ground as the routes are so short, i don't think we have anything over 100ft. the rock is very clean, and we have plenty of nice classic routes. if you are ever in the neighborhood you'll be glad to have stopped by.
thanks for the advice yall, i'll stick with my yates and then if its just absolutly driving me nuts i'll go with Kates method on the daisy's. fortunatly steve and i have spent allot of time together in the tent, and more fortunatly i sleep like the dead.
In reply to: two harnesses, I (assume stove), food, water, (for more than one day), ledge, BEER! bivi gear, full aid rack. wow, you are going to have allot of fun on the approach!
its just more suffering. thats what i came for!
In reply to: I also plan on attempting the Diamond as my first wall this summer, but with a completely different strategy. I was thinking, leave car at 1:00 am, and summit by 11-12 ish, and run the hell off down the N. face. Get home by, say 4 or 5, then break out the brew-skis!
do you plan on doing a hammerless C3 aid route in that fashion? if so, i say that sounds like a pretty stout outing. but even so, if you bail your first 5 trys, there is always next weekend to try again! not so much the option for us.
In reply to: first and most of all it is an alpine climb
as i said in my other thread, this is one of the greatest appeals to us.
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cologman
Mar 16, 2006, 4:32 AM
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If you are actually going to haul a ledge all the way into the base of the Diamond, then a swami belt is very nice. Better yet, schlep to Broadway, crash in the Broadway Hilton and punch it to the top. If you are on the right side a little rain won't hurt. You'd be surprised at how much will blow over you. Now that I've said that everyone out there can give me their Ohshit did we get crapped on story. True enough especially on the left side but still I'd go fast and leave the ledge for Zion as someone else said.
If you check my photos out you'll see a pic of my daughter & I @ Chasm View before we rap back to Braodway and pick up our gear. :wink:
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climbhigher
Mar 16, 2006, 4:56 AM
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DO it the way u want to do it. Just DO it well.
Golsen,
I know where u are coming from. We spent 4 days and 4 nights up there: The sun was out, it was really Balmy, and women where sunbathing on Mills Glacier and skinny dipping Just like El Cap and the Meadow.
The Diamond was my first wall. And Pete Takeda yelled over at us from the Cattle route encourging us telling us how the right side is the Bad ass side. And how he spent sometime over there. He asked if we where going to make it to the top that day. My partner Yelled back and said "One pitch at a time". My partner Craig is BADASS! We where having a celebration dinner at Chasm View that night. I took the odd pitches Craig took the even.
Leaving bivy gear and food at chasm view. rapping in to broadway. Fixing 3 pitches from Broadway. And then blasting to the top. Down the North face (Cables) back to bivy gear at Chasm View. Seems like the Logical way. Unless, U want to go ground up from Mills without fixing any ropes anywhere like we did. Both ways when all said and done will take just as many days just less time on the wall.
\
Unless, U are Josh Wharton, Kelly Cordes, Jonny Copp, or Mike pennings and gang. And then it's just another Long day in the Mountains.
I am also old skool by nature trying to be new skool.
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boardline22
Mar 16, 2006, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: DO it the way u want to do it. Just DO it well.
I wish I could rate today
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lambone
Mar 16, 2006, 7:37 PM
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I just sleep in my harness. After a long day of aiding I could give a crap if I had a harness on or not, I pass the fuck out.
fwiw- I think you are going to get schooled. Hammerless C3...blahblah... whatever, you probly won't even make it to the base with all that crap.
If I were you I'd carry day packs and free climb up the Casual route. Your plan of carrying the kitchen sink and quitting climbing by noon is a fools game. You think you'll be ready for a lunch break by the time the sun gets up...ha! You'll still be curreld up in your warm sleeping bag with a headache wishing you hadn't drank that beer.
If you need to come here and ask how to tie in at night then you shouldn't be on an alpine wall at all.
Go climb your first wall in Yos or Zion where the car is within' sight, you'll have cell phone reception to call your mommy before tucking into bed.
have fun :lol:
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lambone
Mar 18, 2006, 4:39 AM
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good point...
I just typically "feel out" a cliff by one of the standard routes before jumping into a sufferfest both feet first. to each his own...
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euroford
Mar 18, 2006, 4:42 AM
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In reply to: good point... I just typically "feel out" a cliff by one of the standard routes before jumping into a sufferfest both feet first. to each his own...
i can understand that concept, at least we have 'felt out' the area, this will trip #3 to RMNP.
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