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verticaltrip
Mar 21, 2006, 1:57 AM
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for racking my nut's and hexes should i use wire gated oval biners, or would regular be better???
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jorgle
Mar 21, 2006, 2:08 AM
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keylock
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euroford
Mar 21, 2006, 2:09 AM
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i like regular BD ovals.
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styndall
Mar 21, 2006, 2:25 AM
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Folks pretty often say that nuts tend to work themselves off wiregate biners. It never happened to me, but nevertheless I trusted more experienced people and moved mine to some plain ovals.
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verticaltrip
Mar 21, 2006, 3:29 PM
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ok thanks for the help
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csproul
Mar 21, 2006, 3:40 PM
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I was climbing with a friend using his rack and he had his nuts on a wire gate. I found the nuts too easily held the wire gates open and did manage to drop several of his nuts (we managed to find all of them even dropped from a couple hundred feet!) I keep mine on ovals and have never had this problem.
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microbarn
Mar 21, 2006, 3:48 PM
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haven't had a problem with racking mine on heliums
I like that the 'tooth' of the biner is covered so that they never catch.
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ontherocks
Mar 21, 2006, 4:07 PM
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I did have the experience, when using wires (Ovals or BD Hotwires), of nuts/hexes/tricams almost getting out of the biner. I may have lost one nut that way once at JTree (didn't even notice where and when it fell out).
It's not a big deal if you are careful, but I don't use wires anymore, or ovals. I prefer regular carabiners (Petzl Spirit Straight gate) that I can use for other purposes later or on case of an emergency.
Still, I don't think matters much, and as someone posted, WC Heliums are so light that may be a good way to go.
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renohandjams
Mar 21, 2006, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: haven't had a problem with racking mine on heliums I like that the 'tooth' of the biner is covered so that they never catch. |
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the_climber
Mar 21, 2006, 5:13 PM
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Never had a problem racking on wire gates since I started using them to rack at least 5 years ago.
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epoch
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Mar 21, 2006, 5:20 PM
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I use BD wired ovals and I haven't had a bit of trouble with my nuts either falling or snagging rendering them useless.
:lol: :lol: :D :lol: :lol:
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romperroom
Mar 21, 2006, 5:26 PM
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The only way to go in my opinion is to rack nuts on a notchless biner. Nuts go easy on....nuts go easy off.
I think if you drop your gear, it is more user error than anything. Dont blame the gear.
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kubi
Mar 21, 2006, 5:34 PM
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I actually had a nut nearly fall off a wired-oval this weekend. It just happened to be stuck in the notch.
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gunksgoer
Mar 21, 2006, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Folks pretty often say that nuts tend to work themselves off wiregate biners. It never happened to me, but nevertheless I trusted more experienced people and moved mine to some plain ovals. I've heard the same, and I someone explained to me via PM how it worked. They were convincing, and I won't rack nuts on a wiregate. Brent
In reply to: Brent- The reason that I believe wired pro shouldnt be racked on wiregaits is that the potential for gear to be unclipped from the biner, or for the whole set minus the stopper your placing to fall, is much higher than you might imagine. If you rack a whole set on the a biner, a nut is selected by taking the biner of your harness, and grabbing the one you want. With a regular oval, the other stoppers simply fall/slide to the bottem of the biner. On a wiregait, depending on how the biner is oriented, its highly likely that one or more stoppers will get hung up on the gait/nose part of the biner. This is due to the lower profiled and flat nature of the wire gait itself. When the cables to get hung up here, freeing them can be hard, and its very easy for them to unclip. (do you follow me?) Its also very easy for the one nut you grab to get hung up on the nose of the biner, and if its pulled the wrong way, or if the biner is facing a certain direction, the rest of the set, along with the biner, will plummet to the ground, leaving you with just one stopper. The heavier the set, the easier it is for them to unclip from the stopper your holding. This has happened to my partner before, luckily he was on a slab so the set just slid down the rock. Grab your set of nuts and experiement with it. If theyre racked on a wire oval, im sure you can get them to unclip. Althought this is possible with a regular gait, I find its alot less likely to happen. Does that clear things up? |
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microbarn
Mar 21, 2006, 5:51 PM
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thanks for posting that.
I still feel that heliums are as resistant if not more resistant to this than other biners.
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sonus
Mar 21, 2006, 5:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Folks pretty often say that nuts tend to work themselves off wiregate biners. It never happened to me, but nevertheless I trusted more experienced people and moved mine to some plain ovals. I've heard the same, and I someone explained to me via PM how it worked. They were convincing, and I won't rack nuts on a wiregate. Brent In reply to: Brent- The reason that I believe wired pro shouldnt be racked on wiregaits is that the potential for gear to be unclipped from the biner, or for the whole set minus the stopper your placing to fall, is much higher than you might imagine. If you rack a whole set on the a biner, a nut is selected by taking the biner of your harness, and grabbing the one you want. With a regular oval, the other stoppers simply fall/slide to the bottem of the biner. On a wiregait, depending on how the biner is oriented, its highly likely that one or more stoppers will get hung up on the gait/nose part of the biner. This is due to the lower profiled and flat nature of the wire gait itself. When the cables to get hung up here, freeing them can be hard, and its very easy for them to unclip. (do you follow me?) Its also very easy for the one nut you grab to get hung up on the nose of the biner, and if its pulled the wrong way, or if the biner is facing a certain direction, the rest of the set, along with the biner, will plummet to the ground, leaving you with just one stopper. The heavier the set, the easier it is for them to unclip from the stopper your holding. This has happened to my partner before, luckily he was on a slab so the set just slid down the rock. Grab your set of nuts and experiement with it. If theyre racked on a wire oval, im sure you can get them to unclip. Althought this is possible with a regular gait, I find its alot less likely to happen. Does that clear things up?
Wow. This happened to be about a week ago in Linville Gorge. It was a partial set of wired hexes racked on a BD wiregate oval. I took the racked hexes off of my gear sling, grabbed the one a needed, let go of the rest, and watched in horror as the biner opened and fell to the ground with the rest of my hexes. Luckily, it was only the second pitch and the party after me brought them back up to me.
I'm not so sure this wouldn't happen with a solid gate oval. I need to start racking my hexes on 2 biners. :-/
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dr_monkey
Mar 21, 2006, 6:01 PM
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I rack on BD wire ovals and have never had a problem, but my wife claims they fall of too easily. I just realized what the difference is. I leave the biner on my gear loop and grab just the nut I want. She un-clips the biner, places the chosen nut, then un-clips it from the biner.
So maybe it depends on which way you select the nut. It would be interesting to find out which way those who like wire-gates grab nuts :wink: vs. those who dislike wire-gates.
Cheers,
DRS
Sorry, I couldn't help slipping in the sophomoric joke.
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microbarn
Mar 21, 2006, 6:38 PM
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I grab the bunch of 'um and roll the group around until I get the one I like.
Maybe I lack experience in handling my nuts to have seen the problems you guys are talking about.
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ontherocks
Mar 22, 2006, 9:01 PM
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In reply to: I rack on BD wire ovals and have never had a problem, but my wife claims they fall of too easily. I just realized what the difference is. I leave the biner on my gear loop and grab just the nut I want. She un-clips the biner, places the chosen nut, then un-clips it from the biner.
Yes, I only grab the nut I need too, and I don't use wires lately, but regular Petzl Spirits (not ovals). But now that you mention this, one of my partners, that was using the other way -grab all the nuts and select the one that fits- lost his whole set of small nuts at Red Rocks last year (we came down later -at night- and didn't find it). And by the way, I think he was using a wiregate biner.
I do notice that if I am following and clipping nuts to a wire, it feels somehow less secure (I need to double check that the gate is closed and everything is on it's place).
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cedk
Mar 22, 2006, 9:33 PM
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Dr. Monkey I don't think I undersand your method. Are you saying you have the whole set of stoppers hanging from your gear loop on a stopper and rather than unclipping the 'biner from the gear loop finding the right stopper, slotting it and then unclipping it, that you somehow unclip a singel stopper while it's still haning on your gear loop? So if it's the middle stopper with 4 on either side of it you just push those 4 past the gate opeing then pull off the stopper then make sure the gate closes again really quickly before any of the 4 stoppers above it can fall off?
I must be misunderstanding what you're doing because that sounds way worse than your wife's method.
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ontherocks
Mar 22, 2006, 9:50 PM
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In reply to: ...you somehow unclip a singel stopper while it's still haning on your gear loop? ...
Believe me, it is possible. Not sure what he does, but I pick one, lift it a bit (the others hang lower), and without even touching the biner with my fingers, with some wrist action I manage to get it out. Magic!
Well, with some hexes that I have slung with spectra I do need to touch the biner's gate, but I have enough fingers to make the move easy. I know, it's amazing, isn't it? :)
By the way, I rack on my harness, not on a gear sling, then all this is somehow easier.
Disclaimer: I don't advocate one way or another.
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