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ninjaclimb
Mar 26, 2006, 1:38 PM
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Reading the latest Alpinist magazine, (issue 15) I stumbled upon an interesting story on the Needles,SD. The article describes a particular 1st ascent done with hooks duct taped to the wall.
One of my climbing partners thinks that it would hold a fall straight down. I'm thinking of testing it on top rope. Anybody else try this before ? Anyone got some info on it for me ?
Justin
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devkrev
Mar 26, 2006, 1:50 PM
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It was common practice arounds these parts (Connecticut USA) back in the day, I still have a guide that has a gear rating "bomber hooks"
I have never done it myself.
I would save myself the trouble and not bother
dev
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flamer
Mar 26, 2006, 2:30 PM
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If you're seriously thinking of doing this I'd recommend throwing a screamer into the mix.
josh
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climbingaggie03
Mar 26, 2006, 3:49 PM
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I read about using hooks for pro before, not really as a first choice, but as an option if neccessary, I've also heard of putting two hooks together in opposition to hold them in place. I've never done it, and don't really want to, but have fun experimenting, and let us know how it goes.
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paganmonkeyboy
Mar 26, 2006, 3:57 PM
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duct taped hooks are like a1, aren't they ? :D
seriously - I'd be more worried about the rock blowing out - that's a lot of force on a tiny area if you whip onto a hook, and even just standing on them sometimes is enough to start breaking things...
what type of rock are you thinking of testing this on ?
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moose_droppings
Mar 26, 2006, 3:57 PM
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Did this article say if they used the hooks for a clean ascent or were they used to hang and drill the route? Some of the sporters around here use aid techniqes to bolt up routes if they can't get a toprope up to hang from and drill.
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j_ung
Mar 26, 2006, 4:36 PM
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:lol:
I saw the thread title on the FP and immediately got a shiver up my spine. I considered using a ducktaped hook to protect a long run on a notoriously dangerous Stone Mountain route one time. But instead, I opted not to do the route.
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dirtineye
Mar 26, 2006, 5:44 PM
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I got as far a buying the hook I thought would be the best for the job, and still have not done it.
I think if you are asking questions about this delicate and extreme technique, you don't need to be trying it.
Before I ever tried leading on hooks, I'd go do a bunch of aid climbing and test out some hooks above something else that was bomb proof.
What I got the hooks for was to make ONE small move to a semi-jug. In the end, it still has not been worth it to try.
And I hate aid climbing, LOL.
Unless Kate invites me, then I'll learn to love it.
Oh I just noticed the article was about the needles SD. I have a friend who used to climb there, and hanging on hooks to get in a bolt used to be common there. He told a story of watching Paul Miel (I think that's the right spelling) taking 60 foot falls for every couple of hammer whacks, trying to get in a bolt. Also, the pro there is fairly non-existent.
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moose_droppings
Mar 26, 2006, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: Also, the pro there is fairly non-existent.
Hey, don't scare off the trad climbers. :)
There's plenty of pro routes out here, and some of the cracks are bolted too, so you have your choice.
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geezergecko
Mar 27, 2006, 1:33 AM
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Saw Nancy Feagan use a hook for pro in an Imax movie and although I suspect poetic license, I wondered about using hooks on runout granite slab routes.
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goodman
Mar 27, 2006, 3:32 AM
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Hooks as pro for free climbing are certainly not unprecedented - you might consider either weighting the hook (large Fish hooks seem the strongest) with a few pieces of gear or have another rope connected to the hook so your belayer can hold pressure on the hook to keep it from rotating out of its placement. Have fun...
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musicman
Mar 27, 2006, 4:21 AM
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i remember watching a climb somewhere in the UK (i think it was on planetfear.com, but don't quote me on it) where the guy used a hook as pro. he had some weird tacky putty stuff to hold it in place. looked way scary to me, in the vid they had a close up of him placing it. i wish i could find a link for it.
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fear
Mar 27, 2006, 5:26 AM
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On the shorter 1 pitch stuff, lines were often run from the taped hooks to the ground and tensioned with simple systems by the belayer. This kept them set.
Depends of course but probably pretty "bomber" as long as you don't fall far on them.
Often the only option for "real men" in a time long gone short of "rape" with bolts.
-Fear
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tagaustatoppen
Mar 27, 2006, 7:04 AM
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Is there no other way to get pro than to tape hooks? How many hook moves will you be making before you get something a little more solid? What is the "more solid" piece? Where on the route do the hooks begin? so many questions!
If you really feel scared just put a screamer on that piece before the hook move and then (if you are not going to deck) forget about the hook and just climb until you get something solid for pro. Generally people will make a hook move on aid and take the hook with them. First who really wants to fall to a hook? Second are you going to be needing that thing further up? Manage your risk. If the hooks are the last few moves on 100 ft or great climb then just skip them and find something better (make sure you keep you ass of the deck). A fall from that height is safe especially if its vertical or over vertical. If those moves are lower the first 5 or less moves consider something a little less challenging or don't f*#$ up.
Personally I would find something better to take a lead fall to. It doesn't take much to pop a hook out of the wall. Anyone that has made several hook moves in a row knows that less time spent in those top steps reaching for the next hook is less chance of taking a big fall. which also brings out a good point if you do fall on a hook and it holds good luck keeping it there while you jug back to it.
good luck on the fall test thought!
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brutusofwyde
Mar 27, 2006, 5:58 PM
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I've used hooks as free climbing pro and I've used hooks for drilling. It's all good.
Zenyatta Mondata has a hook pitch -- about 70-90 feet of hooking, including 2 large duct-taped fish hooks for pro, and off of your last hook placement (many moves above your last Fish) you launch up unprotected 5.7 slab to the belay.
First ascent of Shady Lane (5.8) on Roadside Crag in New Jack City was led using a taped sky hook for pro at the crux. It has since been renamed, rap bolted and rated 5.11.
FA of Central High (5.9+) in New Jack City (end of Predator Crag) the last bolt was drilled from a hook. The hooked flake has since fallen off.
Many bolts I've placed in the Sierra were drilled from hooks.
I wouldn't recommend taking top-roped falls on hooks to see what they will do. That is a little like running your car into a freeway abutment to see if the air bags work. If you insist, wear a helmet and face shield, just in case your placement undergoes "explosive failure."
Brutus
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mrpants
Apr 14, 2006, 8:11 PM
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Given that the ascent was in the Needles, the hooks were probably used while hand drilling the only bolt on the pitch. :wink:
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stymingersfink
Apr 15, 2006, 1:34 AM
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In reply to: Zenyatta Mondata has a hook pitch -- about 70-90 feet of hooking, including 2 large duct-taped fish hooks for pro, and off of your last hook placement (many moves above your last Fish) you launch up unprotected 5.7 slab to the belay.
and now the new super-toko shows "improbable hook move over roof" rather than the long traverse to the right.
screw that, i'd say that string of hooks is the defining (and my favorite) pitch of the route. I only wish I'd had fish-hooks to leave behind.
sweeeeet line. i'd do it again.
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heiko
Apr 15, 2006, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: And I hate aid climbing, LOL. Unless Kate invites me, then I'll learn to love it.
This makes you - uh - number 11567 in the queue? ;)
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gunkiemike
Apr 16, 2006, 1:19 AM
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I was looking at a route today where a taped hook for pro would be appropriate. It's a moderate free route up an arete. There's a couple small cams to protect the crux about 15 ft off the ground, then no gear at all for the next 30 feet. The climbing is easier but a fall from up high would be fatal. A taped hook on a big edge would help calm the mind during the No Fall zone.
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