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thorne
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Apr 10, 2006, 11:48 AM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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LOL Rufus. It's amusing to watch you talk out of different sides of your mouth. Your "My skin is thick enough to handle whatever you knuckleheads dish out, anyway" cracked me up. :lol:

As far as this whole Bush, Plame Libby business goes, here's a different perspective - from the Washington Post
In reply to:
A Good Leak
President Bush declassified some of the intelligence he used to decide on war in Iraq. Is that a scandal?

Sunday, April 9, 2006; B06



PRESIDENT BUSH was right to approve the declassification of parts of a National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq three years ago in order to make clear why he had believed that Saddam Hussein was seeking nuclear weapons. Presidents are authorized to declassify sensitive material, and the public benefits when they do. But the administration handled the release clumsily, exposing Mr. Bush to the hyperbolic charges of misconduct and hypocrisy that Democrats are leveling.

Rather than follow the usual declassification procedures and then invite reporters to a briefing -- as the White House eventually did -- Vice President Cheney initially chose to be secretive, ordering his chief of staff at the time, I. Lewis Libby, to leak the information to a favorite New York Times reporter. The full public disclosure followed 10 days later. There was nothing illegal or even particularly unusual about that; nor is this presidentially authorized leak necessarily comparable to other, unauthorized disclosures that the president believes, rightly or wrongly, compromise national security. Nevertheless, Mr. Cheney's tactics make Mr. Bush look foolish for having subsequently denounced a different leak in the same controversy and vowing to "get to the bottom" of it.

The affair concerns, once again, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his absurdly over-examined visit to the African country of Niger in 2002. Each time the case surfaces, opponents of the war in Iraq use it to raise a different set of charges, so it's worth recalling the previous iterations. Mr. Wilson originally claimed in a 2003 New York Times op-ed and in conversations with numerous reporters that he had debunked a report that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium from Niger and that Mr. Bush's subsequent inclusion of that allegation in his State of the Union address showed that he had deliberately "twisted" intelligence "to exaggerate the Iraq threat." The material that Mr. Bush ordered declassified established, as have several subsequent investigations, that Mr. Wilson was the one guilty of twisting the truth. In fact, his report supported the conclusion that Iraq had sought uranium.

Mr. Wilson subsequently claimed that the White House set out to punish him for his supposed whistle-blowing by deliberately blowing the cover of his wife, Valerie Plame, who he said was an undercover CIA operative. This prompted the investigation by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald. After more than 2 1/2 years of investigation, Mr. Fitzgerald has reported no evidence to support Mr. Wilson's charge. In last week's court filings, he stated that Mr. Bush did not authorize the leak of Ms. Plame's identity. Mr. Libby's motive in allegedly disclosing her name to reporters, Mr. Fitzgerald said, was to disprove yet another false assertion, that Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney. In fact Mr. Wilson was recommended for the trip by his wife. Mr. Libby is charged with perjury, for having lied about his discussions with two reporters. Yet neither the columnist who published Ms. Plame's name, Robert D. Novak, nor Mr. Novak's two sources have been charged with any wrongdoing.

As Mr. Fitzgerald pointed out at the time of Mr. Libby's indictment last fall, none of this is particularly relevant to the question of whether the grounds for war in Iraq were sound or bogus. It's unfortunate that those who seek to prove the latter would now claim that Mr. Bush did something wrong by releasing for public review some of the intelligence he used in making his most momentous decision.


Partner phaedrus


Apr 6, 2006, 5:56 PM
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Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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VERY nice :evil:

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 13 minutes ago

Vice President Dick Cheney's former top aide told prosecutors President Bush authorized the leak of sensitive intelligence information about Iraq, according to court papers filed by prosecutors in the CIA leak case.

Before his indictment, I. Lewis Libby testified to the grand jury investigating the CIA leak that Cheney told him to pass on information and that it was Bush who authorized the disclosure, the court papers say. According to the documents, the authorization led to the July 8, 2003, conversation between Libby and New York Times reporter Judith Miller.

There was no indication in the filing that either Bush or Cheney authorized Libby to disclose Valerie Plame's CIA identity.

But the disclosure in documents filed Wednesday means that the president and the vice president put Libby in play as a secret provider of information to reporters about prewar intelligence on Iraq.

The authorization came as the Bush administration faced mounting criticism about its failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the main reason the president and his aides had given for going to war.

Libby's participation in a critical conversation with Miller on July 8, 2003 "occurred only after the vice president advised defendant that the president specifically had authorized defendant to disclose certain information in the National Intelligence Estimate," the papers by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald stated. The filing did not specify the "certain information."

"Defendant testified that the circumstances of his conversation with reporter Miller — getting approval from the president through the vice president to discuss material that would be classified but for that approval — were unique in his recollection," the papers added.

Libby is asking for voluminous amounts of classified information from the government in order to defend himself against five counts of perjury, obstruction and lying to the FBI in the Plame affair.

He is accused of making false statements about how he learned of Plame's CIA employment and what he told reporters about it.

Her CIA status was publicly disclosed eight days after her husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of twisting prewar intelligence to exaggerate the Iraqi threat from weapons of mass destruction.

In 2002, Wilson had been dispatched to Africa by the CIA to check out intelligence that Iraq had an agreement to acquire uranium yellowcake from Niger, and Wilson had concluded that there was no such arrangement.

Libby says he needs extensive classified files from the government to demonstrate that Plame's CIA connection was a peripheral matter that he never focused on, and that the role of Wilson's wife was a small piece in a building public controversy over the failure to find WMD in Iraq.

Fitzgerald said in the new court filing that Libby's requests for information go too far and the prosecutor cited Libby's own statements to investigators in an attempt to limit the amount of information the government must turn over to Cheney's former chief of staff for his criminal defense.

According to Miller's grand jury testimony, Libby told her about Plame's CIA status in the July 8, 2003 conversation that took place shortly after the White House aide — according to the new court filing — was authorized by Bush through Cheney to disclose sensitive intelligence about Iraq and WMD contained in a National Intelligence Estimate.

The court filing was first disclosed by The New York Sun.

http://news.yahoo.com/...NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl


rufusandcompany


Apr 6, 2006, 6:00 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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Uh Oh.


arrettinator


Apr 6, 2006, 6:59 PM
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Here's CNN's article as well

http://www.cnn.com/.../libby.ap/index.html


madriver


Apr 6, 2006, 8:06 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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HAS ANYONE SEEN THE PIC OF A PROTESTOR THAT READS...


"wILL SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE bUSH A BLOWJOB SO WE CAN IMPEACH HIM"


:lol: :lol:


rufusandcompany


Apr 6, 2006, 9:47 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
HAS ANYONE SEEN THE PIC OF A PROTESTOR THAT READS...


"wILL SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE bUSH A BLOWJOB SO WE CAN IMPEACH HIM"


:lol: :lol:

Wasn't that the one on the church marquee?


Partner phaedrus


Apr 7, 2006, 1:13 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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Hmm... our neighborhood Republicans are interestingly silent on this one.....


thorne
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Apr 7, 2006, 2:10 PM
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Hmm... our neighborhood Republicans are interestingly silent on this one.....

Bad form, Georgie Boy. Tsk, tsk.

Happy, now. :wink:


Partner j_ung


Apr 7, 2006, 2:24 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Hmm... our neighborhood Republicans are interestingly silent on this one.....

Bad form, Georgie Boy. Tsk, tsk.

Happy, now. :wink:

I'll be happy when we have a real president.


thorne
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Apr 7, 2006, 2:30 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Hmm... our neighborhood Republicans are interestingly silent on this one.....

Bad form, Georgie Boy. Tsk, tsk.

Happy, now. :wink:

I'll be happy when we have a real president.

Would you like some cheese with that?


madriver


Apr 7, 2006, 2:54 PM
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I think GW will skate on the leaks. The damage he has done to the Republican Party is major. The three major gaffs besides Iraq are Katrina, Dubai Ports, and this. 2006 will tell us exactly how fed up we are with this Administration. 2008 should replace the Republicans....but you never know.

MAd as HeLl


dingus


Apr 7, 2006, 3:14 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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I don't believe Bush specifically authorized the leak. I think Cheney did and Bush consented after the fact.

DMT


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Apr 7, 2006, 3:28 PM
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In reply to:
I don't believe Bush specifically authorized the leak. I think Cheney did and Bush consented after the fact.

DMT

I'm inclined to agree, if he consented at all. I'd bet money that Bush just found out he authorized it.


wjca


Apr 7, 2006, 3:41 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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I heard from a friend, that Bush and Cheney often sit down together for a dinner of roasted kittens with a nice au jue.


zozo


Apr 7, 2006, 3:55 PM
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At this point Chucklenuts is either a liar or an imbecile. I will leave it up to his fans to decide which.


Partner phaedrus


Apr 7, 2006, 5:20 PM
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In reply to:
I think GW will skate on the leaks. The damage he has done to the Republican Party is major. The three major gaffs besides Iraq are Katrina, Dubai Ports, and this. 2006 will tell us exactly how fed up we are with this Administration. 2008 should replace the Republicans....but you never know.

MAd as HeLl

I doubt it... much as I despise the current administration and its policies, the Democrats are far too gutless and have no real leadership to really take advantage of all that has happened and is happening... as a result we'll see more of the same old, same old come this. and likely the next, election. :?


bobd1953


Apr 7, 2006, 5:23 PM
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In reply to:
I doubt it... much as I despise the current administration and its policies, the Democrats are far too gutless and have no real leadership to really take advantage of all that has happened and is happening... as a result we'll see more of the same old, same old come this. and likely the next, election. Confused

As the democrats are to blame, so are the American people as a whole for allowing this type of behavior.


rufusandcompany


Apr 7, 2006, 5:26 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I don't believe Bush specifically authorized the leak. I think Cheney did and Bush consented after the fact.

DMT

I'm inclined to agree, if he consented at all. I'd bet money that Bush just found out he authorized it.

Do you really believe that Bush is that unaware of such things going on around him? No offense, but that is pretty naive.


madriver


Apr 7, 2006, 5:29 PM
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rufusandcompany wrote:

In reply to:
Do you really believe that Bush is that unaware of such things going on around him? No offense, but that is pretty naive.

...I can believe. I really believe that Bush learned about the Dubai Ports deal basically the same way you and I did...through AP reporting.

Mad and Naive


madriver


Apr 7, 2006, 5:38 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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phaedrus wrote:

In reply to:
In reply to:
madriver wrote:
I think GW will skate on the leaks. The damage he has done to the Republican Party is major. The three major gaffs besides Iraq are Katrina, Dubai Ports, and this. 2006 will tell us exactly how fed up we are with this Administration. 2008 should replace the Republicans....but you never know.

MAd as HeLl


I doubt it... much as I despise the current administration and its policies, the Democrats are far too gutless and have no real leadership to really take advantage of all that has happened and is happening... as a result we'll see more of the same old, same old come this. and likely the next, election.


...the 2006 elections should tell all. I think the Republicans are in for a shelling. Katrina, Dubai, Iraq, and leaks will be hard to dodge. Wire tapping is not an issue that will help the dems, imagration is too messy for anyone to get tangled in.


wjca


Apr 7, 2006, 6:51 PM
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http://articles.news.aol.com/...id=NWS00010000000001

In reply to:
Just 36 percent of the public approves of Bush's job performance, his lowest-ever rating in AP-Ipsos polling.


In a thread some time back, (I can't find it to link it because it seems the site's search function doesn't search Community) I posed the question as to how low his approval rating would go. I can't remember my guess, but I think I said it would break into the 20's. There is still hope.


In reply to:
"These numbers are scary. We've lost every advantage we've ever had," GOP pollster Tony Fabrizio said. "The good news is Democrats don't have much of a plan. The bad news is they may not need one."


dingus


Apr 7, 2006, 7:00 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I don't believe Bush specifically authorized the leak. I think Cheney did and Bush consented after the fact.

DMT

I'm inclined to agree, if he consented at all. I'd bet money that Bush just found out he authorized it.

Do you really believe that Bush is that unaware of such things going on around him? No offense, but that is pretty naive.

"You're doing a helluva job Brownie."

I rest my case.

DMT


thorne
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Apr 7, 2006, 7:22 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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Come on, people. This is about Bush getting some street cred... showing that he's a playa.

With all the vitriol from the likes of Dean, Murtha, Feingold, McKinney et al, he knows nothing will come of this. On the other hand, those fringe Bushies, with whom he's fallen out of grace, see that ol' Dubya does have some sack. They applaud his fortitude and he regains their favor.

What's really sad about this is the current level of political discourse is so shrill that this barely registers. In most other modern administrations, this would be a major embarassment.


bobd1953


Apr 7, 2006, 8:10 PM
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Re: Papers: Cheney Aide Says Bush OK'd Leak [In reply to]
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In reply to:
rufusandcompany wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dingus wrote:
I don't believe Bush specifically authorized the leak. I think Cheney did and Bush consented after the fact.

DMT


I'm inclined to agree, if he consented at all. I'd bet money that Bush just found out he authorized it.


Do you really believe that Bush is that unaware of such things going on around him? No offense, but that is pretty naive.


"You're doing a helluva job Brownie."

I rest my case.

DMT


Mission Accomplished!

I rest my case.


thorne
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Apr 7, 2006, 8:20 PM
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In reply to:
I rest my case.
I rest my case.

We need to do something about that echo. :lol:

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