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510bill
Apr 25, 2006, 8:01 PM
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What are peoples thoughts on setting up a top rope with a fixed 50kn ring ? I used to set them up with a 50kn ring but when I mentioned that recently at a climbing shop the staff said always use screwgates when setting up a top rope. My thoughts were that two 50k rings where much stronger and safer than two 28k screwgates. Am I wrong, what would be the advantage of the screwgates besides the easy removal. I signed up just to ask this question so lets have some good comments please.
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caughtinside
Apr 25, 2006, 8:09 PM
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I don't see a problem with rigging a TR on a solid steel ring.
That said, I'd still do it on biners, just because it's much more convenient. You don't have to thread the rope with biners, just clip it in. And the strength at that point isn't really relevant, you're not going to get a 28kn force in a toprope fall.
But if you really like the steep ring, keep doing it.
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jakedatc
Apr 25, 2006, 8:21 PM
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I bet you'd get alot more of that black crap on your rope with steel rings..
biners have a larger surface area so thats more rope friendly (not running over as small of an edge
like Caught said.. especially with middle marked ropes.. clip the middle and drop. alot easier to toss 2 side of the rope off if there are ledges or low angle slab to slow up a threaded rope.
also sure 50kn per ring but what are you attaching it to your anchor with.. 22kn or less webbing.. only as strong as the weakest piece
biners are multi functional. and i'd bet that rings will wear out faster than biners.
but ya.. there's nothing wrong with it as long as your system is redundant and all that..
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olib
Apr 25, 2006, 8:22 PM
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I think they were probably suggesting the screwgates to prevent wear from lowering on the fixed anchor, which at some point would have to be replaced. A forum search will reveal substantial debate on this topic.
Lee G.
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dingus
Apr 25, 2006, 8:25 PM
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I think the 'black crap' is aluminium oxide so I doubt steel rings would contribute.
DMT
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*thriller*
Deleted
Apr 25, 2006, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: I bet you'd get alot more of that black crap on your rope with steel rings..
You mean aluminium oxide? Probably not from steel rings - if anything that'd be a reason to use them.
Personally though, I use biners for the simplicity, since normally the topropes I set up are either 2 slings (or draws) on a bolt anchor, or a convoluted gear anchor. I don't see anything wrong with the 50kN ring, just that it'd likely be more complicated to set up.
Ian
Edit: Unless by the fixed rings you mean the rap rings on bolted anchors - toproping on those wears them out quicker and they're difficult to replace.
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510bill
Apr 26, 2006, 12:34 AM
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Thanks everyone. I'm glad the only downside seems be convenience. The reason I got those at the time is because they were stronger and cheaper.
Bill
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ne_dan
Apr 26, 2006, 1:31 AM
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It depends on if your top rope set up is off of static rope or webbing. If you use these there might be some rubbing between the rope and the static or webbing just because the rings are not that big. If your top rope is set up off of bolts then you just have to worry about wearing the rings out.
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meesier42
Apr 26, 2006, 2:26 AM
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I hope you are not talking about bolted rappel rings. it is definately a bad idea to use them.
if not, well the thing that I look at is radius, I always use Jake screwgate which are fat, and with the gates opposed they don't even lay flat against each other giving me about a 3/4 inch wide rope bearing surface which mininized friction and rope wear not to mention that the tighter that you bend a rope the more strength that it looses.
oh ya, the way I was taught and reminded of by more than one person, is that each ring needs a separate anchor, not through a master point
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jakedatc
Apr 26, 2006, 1:59 PM
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In reply to: You mean aluminium oxide? Probably not from steel rings - if anything that'd be a reason to use them.
yea.. but steel does it too.. use some hardware screw links to TR for a bit and you'll see it too (i dont do this but a friend used to)
and as much as people want to turn it into a TRing off the rap anchor thread.. it's not what the guy is doing.. since he bought the rings etc etc
cheaper i see.. the stronger is correct but serious overkill for TR forces so it would not be a reason to sway me because like i said before. the webbing will break before a biner will
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duncan_s
Apr 27, 2006, 11:11 PM
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Are you talking about maillons or just a steel ring? If just a ring how do you thread it through the fig 8/overhand/bunny ears that you use to equalise the setup?
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