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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 3:06 AM
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There is a project I have been working on at my local crag, I wanted to put draws on. I know if I just put the draws up on it people would steal them. Is there anyway to fix them pretty good, so people can steal them? I really need some help on this one. Thanks, Wes....
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duck
Aug 17, 2002, 3:17 AM
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I can think of a few, but they all would either weaken the biner slightly (though not likely enough to pose a safety problem they would DEFINATELY void any warrenty), or make them a permanant addition to the rock.
What would you rather? Having them possibly stolen, or having to remove them with a SawzAll?
Dr.Duck
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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 3:43 AM
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I was thinking to use a quick link on one side of the draw, and tightin it down real good. But I think it would be weaker. They could also steal the other biner. Im not to sure what Im going to do. Has anyone had a problem with getting there draws stolen? Thanks Dr. Duck for your ideas.
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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 3:50 AM
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Maybe I could use this stuff.or this . Could these be used?
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sizzlechest
Aug 17, 2002, 3:57 AM
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man I think you have been inhaling paint, if you've ever used those fix lowering stations then you know they are really stiff to clip, just use old junk draws or if you really won't replace the top biner with a quick lick as mentioned above, generally where i live there is no theft problem with draws on routes, may'be i'm just lucky ??
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krustyklimber
Aug 17, 2002, 3:59 AM
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Dude,
That is totaly where I was goin'!!!
Good job on answering your own Q, with awesome html skills to boot!
Jeff
Edited to add:
Although sizzle makes a good point about the stiffness, it is the short length of them, and the fact that always face left or right you'd have to purchase them carefully and specifically for each placement.
[ This Message was edited by: krustyklimber on 2002-08-16 21:07 ]
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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 4:12 AM
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I just checked those things out they are 21 bucks a peice. Screw doing that. I might as well use old draws and cross my fingers. Would there be anything wrong with just useing one biner, other than rope drag? Sizzlechest,, I guess your lucky. I climb at a well its a nice crag just not to many people know climbing ethics, around here. The good climbers do. But the rest are losers. I think I used the right word "ethics". Who knows. Also thanks krustyklimber for the props.
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climbinganne
Aug 17, 2002, 4:31 AM
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and the question was???
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jansuw
Aug 17, 2002, 5:07 AM
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Well, I would imagine that a lot of people wouldn't like if you left those things or old draws on the route. What if someone wanted to climb the route, and place their own draws instead of yours. Or maybe they wouldn't trust your draws. And neither would I if they'd been hanging there in the sun and rain for weeks
You shouldn't leave draws on real rock i think. I can't really see any benefit expect not having to clean/put up the draws everytime you climb.
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nailzz
Aug 17, 2002, 5:47 AM
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I've seen a post similar to this one before, and I have the same question now as I did then:
Is this a route that you are setting? Meaning that you are drilling your own bolts (whole 'nother ball o' wax here, let's not get off the point) and putting up an original first ascent.
OR
Is it an established route already?
In the first case (this is where my question arises) it is my understanding that from an ethics standpoint, you can leave your draws up there as long as you wish. This should be a sign to other climbers that this is a route in progress and to respect the work you've already put in by leaving it be until it's finished.
On the other hand, if you leave draws on an established route, and somebody else wants to climb that route, say goodbye to your draws.
Am I way off-base here? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
-Tony
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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 5:55 AM
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It's a route that was put up by a local I know. He has givin up on it and he handed it over to me. So yea its still a project. I dont think anyone else has touched it. I was hearing about the red tag thing to, for projects. Like putting a red tag on the first bolt. Is this the way it is now? Well thanks everyone for posting and helping me out. Later, Wes
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krustyklimber
Aug 17, 2002, 6:37 AM
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O.K. Here's how it's done out West...
If you are working a route you are allowed to leave your draws on it for one or two days at best, if you are not working the route (dude, it's a rest day is an acceptable answer, for a day or two only) after that it is usually considered poor form and even hogging.
If you come onto a route and it has draws on it climb it. Use the draws, unless like Jan you are afraid (which even when left in the sun, rain, snow and ice for a year would probably be alright). And if you can't bring yourself to use them, most hangers will allow you to clip another draw into them. Then you clip the hanging 'biner on the offenders draw onto the upper one, this is like a parking ticket, it means "if you don't move it you may be towed".
But then there are the "special cases", like Chained Reaction at Smith Rock, that are so hard to even get draws on and off that it always has fixed draws (steal those and your toast), and these are "maintained" by locals so they are never suspect.
This is one of the problems newer climbers have created... in the past it was a given that gear anywhere at the crag was not booty, until much dirt and grass had accumulated atop of it. You could hike to the base of a wall set your pack full of gear down (no hiding) and walk back to get the rest of your gear or maybe wait a day or two. And all of it would be exactly where you left it... If it's not mine, it's not mine was the LAW!
Is there a climbers board there? If so put up a note calmly explaining how "project draws" work, but don't milk routes.
I hope you sort it out!
Jeff
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nailzz
Aug 17, 2002, 6:54 AM
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Thanks Krus, I learned a lot from that post.
And I'll second the vote for good luck, Wes.
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paintinhaler
Aug 17, 2002, 7:26 AM
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Hey, thats a great idea a climber's board. Like a cork board. And you can put up messages and stuff. Thats great, I didnt think of it really. I hope that would fix the problem. Wow, I mean that would work good. Thanks again....
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bouldertoad
Aug 26, 2002, 3:44 AM
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First of all why do you have to leave the draws in the first place? Is it a severley overhanging route that is difficult to clean? If so then just go and get those frost power draws that are basically cable and leave them for everyone to use. If it is not then just put the draw up every time you go out. Maybe I am alone on this one but whenever I pinkpoint a route I do not feel as though I completed the route properly, I always go back out and lead the route placing all the draws on lead. I then feel like I truly completed the route.
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paintinhaler
Aug 26, 2002, 3:52 AM
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its a 5.13b project. Most routes this hard you keep draws on.
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brisboy
Aug 26, 2002, 7:51 AM
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Dmm Mambas (spelling there) where the curved gate is stiched in and can't be removed without cutting the webbing and on the other end a mallion done up really tight with lock tight or similar product, then hack saw them off when finished
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jt512
Aug 26, 2002, 4:02 PM
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One trick is to clean the couple of draws. Then, at least, to steal the rest, a would-be thief has to be able to climb two bolts of 5.whatever to get to them.
-Jay
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aarong
Aug 26, 2002, 4:20 PM
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Is this that steep cave route at Shepherd's Springs that has a leaver biner on the 4th bolt?
I'm interested in what climb it is. I climb in Arkansas a lot.
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aarong
Aug 26, 2002, 5:27 PM
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I fixed some draws on a route a couple of years ago to work a route. This is in a remote area...seldom visited by climbers. I thought I'd have no problem with having the draws stolen. I used older biners and tied runners; 7 draws in all, all the perfect length for each clip. I was so excited. About a week after putting them up I learned that a "sport rappeller" had stolen all of them!! I was pissed.
If I set draws on a route again I'd used quicklinks...really tightened down, closed-ended draws and then duct-tape the s--- out of them. Someone who REALLY wants to steal your stuff will find a way to get it. But this will prevent the tendency for the random climber/rappeller to take the draws. A note (laminated) attached to the first bolt which expalins who you are and what you are doing will add a personal touch and might prevent people from taking them.
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bouldertoad
Aug 27, 2002, 2:20 AM
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Well I guess down here in the southeast we do not always leave draws on routes that hard. There are plenty of routes at the New River Gorge of that difficulty that are not fixed.
One other idea, is it possible to leave only a few of the bolts clipped? Like all of the ones that are particularly difficult to clip. Or maybe if there is access to the top just rappell down and place the draws each time you go out. That will also give you a chance to clean the holds if need be....good luck on your project
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paintinhaler
Sep 3, 2002, 10:58 PM
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Thanks, to everyone for the posts.
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whipper
Sep 3, 2002, 11:24 PM
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For all those people who said not to fix them you are a a bunch of retards. Now I dont always fix draws, but if I am working on a hard project that you probably cant do any way and you gank my draws I hope you fall on one and it breaks and you die die die. (I just had 13 draws stolen at a local grag so I am a little pissed)
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whipper
Sep 3, 2002, 11:29 PM
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oh yea, Frost draws and quick links are bomb. and you can get them of with the right tools when you are done to move on to your next project.
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