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Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF
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Partner blonde_loves_bolts


May 18, 2006, 12:32 AM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Until the 1960s/early 1970s, when more people started catching on. Even in present day transactions, some older title deeds still carry the old covenant restrictions that pertain to race, though they are clearly unenforceable.

And people wonder why the local high school is ~89% white.
:roll:


crankinv9


May 18, 2006, 2:31 AM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Well my town and majority of the people in it don't want colored people living in it, so how do you feel about that town's right?
You're equating race with lifestyle choice?

well. if it's good enough for the bushtard....

if you want the quotes, I can find 'em
Please do. :wink:

From a bush speech on social security:

I also threw out another interesting idea -- it's certainly not my idea, because others have talked about it, and that is to allow younger workers, on a voluntary basis, to take some of their own money and set it aside in the form of a personal savings account -- a personal savings account which is their own; a personal savings account which would earn a better rate of return than the money -- their money currently held within the Social Security trust; a personal savings account which will compound over time and grow over time; a personal savings account which can't be used to bet on the lottery, or a dice game, or the track. In other words, there will be guidelines. There will be certain -- you won't be allowed just to take that money and dump it somewhere. In other words, there will be a safe way to invest, to be able to realize the compounding rate of interest.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/..._p44237-083-250h.jpg


organic


May 18, 2006, 3:44 AM
Post #28 of 47 (1228 views)
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Well my town and majority of the people in it don't want colored people living in it, so how do you feel about that town's right?
You're equating race with lifestyle choice?

well. if it's good enough for the bushtard....

if you want the quotes, I can find 'em
Please do. :wink:

From a bush speech on social security:

I also threw out another interesting idea -- it's certainly not my idea, because others have talked about it, and that is to allow younger workers, on a voluntary basis, to take some of their own money and set it aside in the form of a personal savings account -- a personal savings account which is their own; a personal savings account which would earn a better rate of return than the money -- their money currently held within the Social Security trust; a personal savings account which will compound over time and grow over time; a personal savings account which can't be used to bet on the lottery, or a dice game, or the track. In other words, there will be guidelines. There will be certain -- you won't be allowed just to take that money and dump it somewhere. In other words, there will be a safe way to invest, to be able to realize the compounding rate of interest.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/..._p44237-083-250h.jpg

Was that quote meant in defamation? Because if it was I don't understand what is wrong with it. The part you placed in bold was meant to be arbitrary, hope you can grasp the english language sometime soon, peace.


boondock_saint


May 18, 2006, 4:06 AM
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I was about to explain it to you but look at the time, I'm going to bed ...


gogo


May 18, 2006, 4:24 AM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Seems like there is a loophole in this law - can't they just point out that the three kids are related to them both by blood?


bigevilgrape


May 18, 2006, 11:46 AM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Seems like there is a loophole in this law - can't they just point out that the three kids are related to them both by blood?

I was about to post that very same thought. I always assumed that your chlidren where related to you.


Partner booger


May 18, 2006, 12:30 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Seems like there is a loophole in this law - can't they just point out that the three kids are related to them both by blood?

I was about to post that very same thought. I always assumed that your chlidren where related to you.

I think the issue is then that they're not related to each other.


thorne
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May 18, 2006, 1:07 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Until the 1960s/early 1970s, when more people started catching on. Even in present day transactions, some older title deeds still carry the old covenant restrictions that pertain to race, though they are clearly unenforceable.

So what you were really saying was - "Then again, in my town (decades before I was born), you couldn't own or live on property within its confines unless you were a white married couple(which is similar to segregationist policies common throughout the country prior to the civil rights changes of the 50s and 60s), right?


yanqui


May 18, 2006, 1:51 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Seems like there is a loophole in this law - can't they just point out that the three kids are related to them both by blood?

I was about to post that very same thought. I always assumed that your chlidren where related to you.

Ha. Aren't you clever. Ever considered carreers in the law? What's for sure is that there is not more than three people in the household who are not related by blood. And, depending on the wording of the law, this might be what is literally prohibited. So this could be the exact loophole the law needs. In this case, for example, I could get together with my Aunt Lucy, my nephew Jason, my buddy Mike and the columbian singer Shakira and rent a house in this hell-hole of a suburb to Saint Louis, since there would be exactly three of us (and not more) not related by blood.

On the other hand, from the following wording, it sounds like the law implies that if there are more than three people in the house, then ALL of them have to be related by blood, marriage or adoption. What a difference logical precision makes.

At any rate, if this town starts using this law to prevent unmarried parents from living with their children, that's a way fucked-up violation of individual freedom. The type of violation I'm sure the Taliban could relate to, for example. Maybe they could start requiring the women in this suburb to wear burkas and the men to grow beards?

In reply to:
The current ordinance prohibits more than three people from living together unless they are related by "blood, marriage or adoption."


dingus


May 18, 2006, 2:11 PM
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Why do little stupid shit podunk ignorant red neck towns like this insist on incurring the cost of ACLU suits?

Dumbasses!

DMT


thorne
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May 18, 2006, 2:22 PM
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Why do little stupid s--- podunk ignorant red neck towns like this insist on incurring the cost of ACLU suits?

Dumbasses!

DMT
Or maybe they're trying to keep the "black rednecks" out. :wink:

Ain't urban decay a bitch? :lol:


gogo


May 18, 2006, 2:30 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Yeah, that would be the counterargument for the loophole. I was going on the basis that that it would be that it is a maximum of one person in the household who isn't related to everyone by blood, which seems like it could slide.

I think if they challenged the law on that basis, and the city gov't decided to revise it to clarify against the family, then the city will look really biased against a family and catch a lot of flak. . .but then again, I'm amazed by our countries decisions time and time again.


crankinv9


May 18, 2006, 2:30 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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Was that quote meant in defamation? Because if it was I don't understand what is wrong with it. The part you placed in bold was meant to be arbitrary, hope you can grasp the english language sometime soon, peace.

I guess you don't mind the pretzldent being a racist then because this was said to an african-american group.

He was equating race with lifestyle, becase we all know the brothers like to hang out and bet and roll dice all day.

If you don't see anything wrong with the defamation of a racial group then you are a good republican. Good job.


thorne
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May 18, 2006, 2:52 PM
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I guess you don't mind the pretzldent being a racist then because this was said to an african-american group.
What group was that?

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He was equating race with lifestyle, becase we all know the brothers like to hang out and bet and roll dice all day.
They're always hording the tables in Vegas, too. :evil: :evil: :evil:

In reply to:
If you don't see anything wrong with the defamation of a racial group then you are a good republican. Good job.
I would agree with you if I had such an over-active imagination.

Some people need any old excuse to misunderstand another's words.


Partner wideguy


May 18, 2006, 4:11 PM
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Was that quote meant in defamation? Because if it was I don't understand what is wrong with it. The part you placed in bold was meant to be arbitrary, hope you can grasp the english language sometime soon, peace.

I guess you don't mind the pretzldent being a racist then because this was said to an african-american group.

He was equating race with lifestyle, becase we all know the brothers like to hang out and bet and roll dice all day.

I'd be interested in seeing the rest of the conversation, because that sentance really reads like a response to a specific question ABOUT dice and gambling and frivalous waste of the savings.


Partner blonde_loves_bolts


May 18, 2006, 4:41 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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So what you were really saying was - "Then again, in my town (decades before I was born), you couldn't own or live on property within its confines unless you were a white married couple(which is similar to segregationist policies common throughout the country prior to the civil rights changes of the 50s and 60s), right?

Depends on where you live; red lining went out as a practice between the Civil Rights movement and the Milliken decision regarding busing in 1978. However, this isn't the South; it's 15 minutes northeast of San Francisco. Two years ago, plans to turn an empty former library building into a shelter for working families (since the building was within walking distance of all public transportation to every part of the Bay Area) were rejected because the locals were horrified of the inherent change in cultural makeup.

The effects of events ~30 years ago aren't confined to that time period. And the fact that you were already old and crotchety by then still doesn't lend a sense of relevance to your posts.


thorne
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May 18, 2006, 5:06 PM
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Just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When exactly did the start allowing people other than "married white couples" to purchase property in your town?


Partner blonde_loves_bolts


May 18, 2006, 5:27 PM
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Restrictive covenants in housing were declared unconsitutional in 1948, but actually enforced as such during the Kennedy administration. However, in a California history class I took in 2003, the lecturer produced part of a title deed from a 1966 transaction with the language that pertained to racial restrictions fully intact. The town doesn't prefer to publicize these matters, so it's difficult to find information, but according to several teachers I had in high school who had either gone to my high school during this time or were teaching in it, the restrictions were still being enforced up until the early 1970s, which was even after the Loving v. Virginia decision regarding anti-miscegenation laws.


thorne
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May 18, 2006, 5:52 PM
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However, in a California history class I took in 2003, the lecturer produced part of a title deed from a 1966 transaction with the language that pertained to racial restrictions fully intact.

Was this before or after the local race riots?


thorne
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May 24, 2006, 4:43 PM
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The officials of Black Jack are pretty clear on their official position. :wink:

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Marry or get out, US town tells unwed parents
May 23 9:20 PM US/Eastern

A small American town is facing accusations of seeking to drive unmarried couples with children out of town on grounds they do not fit the local definition of a family.

The brewing controversy in Black Jack, a town of 6,800 in the central state of Missouri, began unfolding earlier this year when Olivia Shelltrack and Fondray Loving were denied an occupancy permit after moving into a four-bedroom house they had purchased.

Local officials told the couple that the fact they were not married and had three children, one from Shelltrack's previous relationship, did not fit the town's definition of "family".

A Black Jack ordinance prohibits more than three people from living together in a single family home unless they are related by "blood, marriage or adoption".

The couple were then left with the option of getting married, packing their bags and leaving town, or putting up a fight, which is what they decided to do.

"I think the city wants to send a clear message that they don't want children born out of wedlock," Shelltrack told AFP in a phone interview. "It has become a moral issue for them.

"They see family in a certain way and that's the only acceptable way."

Shelltrack, 31, said she and Loving, her partner of 13 years, never imagined when they moved to Black Jack from Minnesota in January that a legal nightmare awaited them.

"We though the occupancy permit was a housing code issue, that an inspector would come by and check the house," Shelltrack said. "But we figured something was wrong when they asked for the children's birth certificates and a marriage certificate."

She said the family has received a lot of support from neighbors and local residents, many of whom are baffled by what they consider an archaic law.

Sheldon Stock, the town's attorney, told AFP there were no plans to evict the couple after the City Council earlier this month rejected a measure that would have changed the definition of a family to include unmarried couples with two or more children.

Nonetheless, he said, Shelltrack and Loving would have to abide by the law or face fines and a court battle.

"The city intends to enforce its ordinances and we think under the current state of the law that we have every right to do so," he said.

Stock noted that numerous other cities in Missouri have similar occupancy codes, but he acknowledged that the majority don't enforce them.

"Everybody in their occupancy codes has a definition of family," he said. "Somewhere you draw a line and unfortunately in this case they (Shelltrack and Loving) don't fall on the right side of the line."

The couple have taken their case to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which is considering filing a lawsuit against the city on their behalf.

The US Department of Housing and Urban Development is also conducting an investigation.

Anthony Rothert, the legal director for the ACLU in eastern Missouri, told AFP that some 10 unmarried couples with children had been denied occupancy permits in recent years in Black Jack and were essentially driven out of town.

One unmarried couple that owns a house in the mainly Catholic town and that recently had a second child is facing the same fate, Rothert said.

"I find this ordinance very bizarre," he said, adding that the city's argument that the law, adopted in 1985, was aimed at preventing overcrowding did not hold up.

"If Olivia and Fondray were married and had 20 kids they could live in the house," he said. "I think this is all about the city trying to impose its moral values on its citizens."


squierbypetzl
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May 25, 2006, 4:15 AM
Post #46 of 47 (1228 views)
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Yeah, that townīs gonna lose, since apparently you canīt have a live in maid in your house, īcause sheīs not related to any of the "family" by blood/marriage/adoption. If they then decide that yes you can have a live in maid, then this family has won their case: 1 non-relative in a house is less than 3, same goes for 2 non-related people living in the house.

itīs late, iīm fucking pissed off, kinda drunk, and english isnīt my 1st language. deal with it.


Partner j_ung


May 25, 2006, 2:48 PM
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Re: Town won't let unmarried parents live together...WTF [In reply to]
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I guess in instances like this it sucks, but get married then end of story...


you're kidding right? don't have some kind of right to .. you know ... not have to get married when someone tells us to?


I can see the problem a few people pointed out, but if the system is broken then fix it (and by fix it, I don't mean infringe on the way people live their happy peaceful lives).

Well, freedom is a funny double edged thing. They are free to not get married. The town is free to follow the majority decision of it's populace to not allow them to live there. It's ultra-conservative, narrow minded, stupid and perhaps distatseful to you personally but it's within the town's right.

In this particular case, I'm not so sure that it actually is within the town's right. I think this enforcement action violates the spirit of the law.

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