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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 3:13 PM
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So I was in the organic grocery store yesterday...
we have one here in town, brand new. Its in the burbs so it has a department most urban health food stores lack... meat. At least its hormone free, haha.
Anyway, up near the cash registers is a magazine rack. Not your typical supermarket rack, more your typical food co-op rack, a few magazines but more handouts, flyers, announcements, what have you.
But laughingly, one of the say 10 or 20 magazines they stock is Climbing. I literally laughed out loud when I saw Outside also had a spot on the rack.
Gotta pretty much figger there is a climber on the staff at THAT store.
So while I was waiting for the fat lady sans makeup and socks (her toenails were f*#king gross!) to get her granola out of the cart I picked up the photo issue of Climbing and leafed through.
I guess I am getting old in an over hill (more like AROUND THE HILL in my case) sense. But many of the shots looked essentially the same... some honed dude or babe crimping on some ridiculously overhanging piece of rock. As if in a blur they all seem to blend together, as if a conspiracy exists amongst photogs to copy one another.
Oh look, another 19 year old dude hanging off holds I can't even see without me glasses, how original! What's this on the next page? Hah! Another award winning photo of some 19 year old chick hanging off holds I can't see without my glasses. And on the next page, just top throw something in the mix, is a pic of a 19 year old metrosexual hanging off holds I can't see without my glasses.
OK, enough of that. The other old dude complaint I wish to lodge today has to do with bouldering photos.
I F*#KING HATE SPOTTER ARMS IN BOULDERING PICS! IN FACT I WISH BOULDERING PHOTOGS WOULD EXERCISE THEIR GOD GIVEN PHOTOSHOPPE POWERS AND EDIT THE FREAKING SPOTTERS OUT ALL TOGETHER!
They're like insect antenna, those arms all sticking up. Again, bouldering shots all seem to look the same. The boulders all look alike, all the climbers look alike. All the spotters look like cult worshippers.
I put the mag back, paid for my coffee (they have a killer coffee bean center there and the cheapest half and half in northern California) and left.
You know you should stick a fork in it when climbing porn just makes you squint and yawn.
Anyway....
in our haste to be different, why is it we all look the same?
Prepackaged granola... just like at the supermarket.
DMT
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horseonwheels
Jun 1, 2006, 4:10 PM
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I agree with you about the climbing mags, and I can even see those microscopic holds!!!!
I subscribe to both R&I and Climbing, and the general process of reading goes something like this - flip through the pictures to see if there is any big wall, trad, or adventure climing pics (let alone stories), then set the mag on my stack of other disappointing mags. Usually takes me about 1.5 minutes.
However, I will say that I am very impressed with the latest Climbing. The cover story on Black Canyon, with cool old photos and stories of the first ascents of Painted Wall. Also, a spotlight on a bunch of the moderate routes in the Wasatch Range. Best issue in a long time I would say.
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crazyscuba
Jun 1, 2006, 4:16 PM
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i'm very sorry you had a hard time looking at some climbing pics. maybe you just missed the indian creek shot, the one of bachar-yerian, and the ice climbing shots. oh well. hopefully next year we'll have some more pics of weekend warriors chuffing up some 5.4's for you. that way you won't have to look at the fat lady in front of you. i guess its just a slow news day when you once again have to complain about how there are too many pictures of kids who train hard and pull hard.
steve
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grampacharlie
Jun 1, 2006, 4:33 PM
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Too true.
I would like to see people displaying the same emotions I suffer in my climbing...
Fear, delight, uncertainty...
I wanna see people strung out on mediocre gear, thrutching for jams, fumbling for gear, with the fear of god in their eyes.... on a 5.9!
Don't get me wrong, I love hearing about the next 5.16 going down, but I cannot relate to anything much above 5.11, or a V5.
I would just like to see a more well-rounded representation
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clayman
Jun 1, 2006, 4:46 PM
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Dingus,
Is this a troll of some sort? I find it hard to beleive you didn't know what to expect in those rags. Why bother?
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 4:56 PM
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In reply to: maybe you just missed the indian creek shot, the one of bachar-yerian, and the ice climbing shots. oh well.
Yes, I missed those not that it has any bearing on the subject. Believe it or not but I have seen several pics of all those places before! TRUE!
In reply to: hopefully next year we'll have some more pics of weekend warriors chuffing up some 5.4's for you.
I'm glad you know and respect your customers.
In reply to: i guess its just a slow news day when you once again have to complain about how there are too many pictures of kids who train hard and pull hard. steve
I hear ya. I know its me and a function of age. I know I'm being a curmudgeon.
I got that. My post was a celebration in that respect!
But most of those shots DO look the same, the rocks, the moves, the climbers and the clothes they wear. And yes, the subject matter mostly lends itself to that, there's only so many ways to photograph a climber.
I wrote about it because I enjoy writing and well, it happened yesterday afternoon. You publish 10 photos that all look pretty much the same, call it cutting edge. I rewrite the same basic message in a few different ways and I'm being repetitive.
We do understand one another. I'll set aside some good natured barbs and just suggest this...
if being cutting edge means copying the styles of other writers or photographers, I WANT NO PART OF CUTTING EDGE.
And WHY NOT come 5.4 chuffer photos? Why not some grainy snapshots that capture some of the angst and grime of the sport? Why not more diversity amongst top pictures? Is it the photogs? The editors? Or is it the customers who through demand make it plain these are the preferred styles?
But I'm not the only one who feels a total disconnect with modern climbing mags.
DMT
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redlegrangerone
Jun 1, 2006, 5:35 PM
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I have to admit, I really did enjoy the last issue though. One of my partners is from SLC. Now, I would like to go climb on some of those Wasatch routes. Best thing is...... they are actually in my ability range.
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crazyscuba
Jun 1, 2006, 5:37 PM
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i definitely understand and respect your opinion. thats the beauty of these sites. everybody can say what they want and complain about anything. i agree that many shots can seem to blend togethor. what gets to me though is how everybody seems to bag on the kids that train their butts off to send their projects that are amazingly hard. then everybody seems to say the same thing and desregarding the picture and the send as trash.
a lot of these arguments seem to come from the trad climbers. i rarely see this from any other aspect of climbing. almost everytime i've gone bouldering, cragging, alpine or ice climbing i've met very nice people who almost always offer to talk or climb togethor. obviously i see this with trad as well, but more often than not i feel like the trad community has an attitude.
oh well, enough complaining and sorry for the hijack.
steve
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pastprime
Jun 1, 2006, 6:01 PM
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The best stories in any activity come from the early phases when there are still a lot of unknowns, and there is still a lot that hasn't been worked out yet. Later, it all starts to boil down to a formula, and the stories aren't as interesting. There are lots of interesting stories that come out of the early days of climbing, or aviation, or even driving a car across the county, that are interesting even to those who aren't familiar with the activity, because they can relate to the adventure, the unknowns that have to be overcome, the unforeseen problems that have to be creatively solved.
Climbing has become, as all activities eventually become, a formula process. One can climb for years without confronting anything that hasn't already been worked out by someone else. It is a matter of learning what has already been figured out, not of developing much that is new, except in the gear itself, and that doesn't make for very interesting reading or pictures.
It isn't that climbing isn't interesting; it is just that its predictability doesn't generate the stories that come out of figuring out something new in an unknown environment.
A story, or picture of, someone climbing the first 5.16 isn't going to be much different from stories and pictures of the first 5.14, or the first 5.13; and we've all already read and seen those.
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jordan514d
Jun 1, 2006, 6:02 PM
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If you dont want to see strong people pulling on hard routes maybe you shouldn't subscribe/purchase climbing magazines. If you want to see fat middle aged trad climbers pulling on gear and jerking their way up 5.4 routes thats fine but look at it from another perspective. Climbing Media is meant to open peoples minds to what is possible and show how far the limits can be pushed. Narrow minded trad climbers: if your going to sit here and bag on hard climbing keeping eating, get fatter, and maybe one day you will repoint that 5.5 that you have been working
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 6:21 PM
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In reply to: If you dont want to see strong people pulling on hard routes maybe you shouldn't subscribe/purchase climbing magazines.
I don't equate climbing mags to climbing anymore really. Shame on me when I did, lol. When I want to see strong people pulling hard routes I go climbing.
A climbing pic in a glossy mag gets you as close tyo climbing as a glossy pic of a Penthouse model gets you to sex.
I appreciate your point about a magazine focusing on showing the possibilities. I think its a good point and I'm sure the mags each try to do it in their own measure. I'm not bagging on sport climbing, bouldering or climbers in general. This isn't a trad rant.
Cheers
DMT
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 6:27 PM
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In reply to: i what gets to me though is how everybody seems to bag on the kids that train their butts off to send their projects that are amazingly hard. then everybody seems to say the same thing and desregarding the picture and the send as trash.
Point taken. I was trying to convey that sense of sameness I get from a lot of photos these days. The poster below you had some interesting thoughts about pioneer sports vs those that are well established.
But the pic has nothing whatsoever to do with the send. Half the climbing shots I see, I'm guessing no send was involved anyway. The amount of pure posing is kinda funny really. A posed climbing shot cloaked as a real send making its way to magazine status is bankrupt imo.
DMT
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jaybro
Jun 1, 2006, 6:37 PM
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The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of generic photography gets included because of the rating or the personnel involved.
A good photo needs to have something that draws your eye; interesting composition, 'the decisive moment' ... SOMETHING that sets it apart. Background information (the climber, the rating, etc) is just that, and will not carry the photo. I think this in part, is what has lead to the declining popularity of Climbing magazines with climbers, and the attempt to appeal to a wider audience via the lowest common denominator; sensationalism. 'This is rad because we tell you so.'
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crazyscuba
Jun 1, 2006, 7:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: i what gets to me though is how everybody seems to bag on the kids that train their butts off to send their projects that are amazingly hard. then everybody seems to say the same thing and desregarding the picture and the send as trash. Point taken. I was trying to convey that sense of sameness I get from a lot of photos these days. The poster below you had some interesting thoughts about pioneer sports vs those that are well established. But the pic has nothing whatsoever to do with the send. Half the climbing shots I see, I'm guessing no send was involved anyway. The amount of pure posing is kinda funny really. A posed climbing shot cloaked as a real send making its way to magazine status is bankrupt imo. DMT
i understand what you are saying as far as photos looking alike a lot of the time. my favorite photographers are jorg, tim kemple and keith ladzinski be cause their shots are a little different than many. while they all have a certain quality to them there are aspects that set them apart and make them a little different. i agree with you completely about posing shots though.
steve
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tradchick
Jun 1, 2006, 8:07 PM
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After receiving the Climbing mag photo issue in the mail and glancing through it, I decided I won't be renewing my subscription. Typically there isn't much worth reading and I'm sick of seeing what looks like the same old bouldering pics.
IMO Alpinist magazine gets it right...the pics and the articles are fresh and interesting.
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climbsomething
Jun 1, 2006, 8:27 PM
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Have you considered writing to the climbing mags directly, instead of posting about it here? Or submitting your own photos that show what you want to see?
FWIW, when I submit shots, I try to include a healthy mixture of moderate-to-hardish sport, not-that-hard trad, and bouldering-for-mortals. It's not easy breaking into that world, but I have had a shot of a 5.9 sport route published. So the shots are out there...
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mcgivney_nh
Jun 1, 2006, 8:33 PM
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In reply to: If you dont want to see strong people pulling on hard routes maybe you shouldn't subscribe/purchase climbing magazines. If you want to see fat middle aged trad climbers pulling on gear and jerking their way up 5.4 routes thats fine but look at it from another perspective. Climbing Media is meant to open peoples minds to what is possible and show how far the limits can be pushed. Narrow minded trad climbers: if your going to sit here and bag on hard climbing keeping eating, get fatter, and maybe one day you will repoint that 5.5 that you have been working
yeah, what he said.
-Sean
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jordan514d
Jun 1, 2006, 8:43 PM
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good discontinue your subscription maybe soon you will realize that you are a shitty climber, anyone can climb 5.7, then hopefully you will do the climbing world a favor and quit!
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gogo
Jun 1, 2006, 9:42 PM
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What is the importance of being to "relate" to the athletes in climbing magazines past the fact that we climb-they climb?
I mean, I used to ski hard, don't anymore, but I still check out the new lines the people who are at the top of the game throw down, despite the fact that they're over my head. I think the same applies with climbing.
And can't one make the argument in reverse - I could see people complaining if the photo issue showed a majority of trad-alpine shots. I know some climbers who would look at shots of different high peaks and dismiss them as too similar, the way many are arguing against bouldering shots.
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slablizard
Jun 1, 2006, 9:52 PM
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crazyscuba, the pictures (2!) of Pietro dal Pra' on Tom and Jerry in verdon were within the best climbing pictures I ever saw. Is it possible to have a poster of them? Paying of course...Now I can't take that line out of my mind...maybe one day I'll be back there.
I loved that issue for its variety, and to answer Dingus...no offense man, but as the fat lady was gross to look at, so are many pics of people on a 5.8 with a ton and a half of gear. Especially now that all the classic in Yosemite are done free, sometimes 2 routes in a row ;) Ok we're talking superhumans there, but would you buy a "average housewife playboy edition" with middle aged fat ladies? Neither would I.
One thing you're right thou, enough spotter's hands!
In reply to: i definitely understand and respect your opinion. thats the beauty of these sites. everybody can say what they want and complain about anything. i agree that many shots can seem to blend togethor. what gets to me though is how everybody seems to bag on the kids that train their butts off to send their projects that are amazingly hard. then everybody seems to say the same thing and desregarding the picture and the send as trash. a lot of these arguments seem to come from the trad climbers. i rarely see this from any other aspect of climbing. almost everytime i've gone bouldering, cragging, alpine or ice climbing i've met very nice people who almost always offer to talk or climb togethor. obviously i see this with trad as well, but more often than not i feel like the trad community has an attitude. oh well, enough complaining and sorry for the hijack. steve |
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: I mean, I used to ski hard, don't anymore, but I still check out the new lines the people who are at the top of the game throw down, despite the fact that they're over my head. I think the same applies with climbing.
Hmmm, I have to agree that modern ski photography suffers the same 'they all look the freakin same' aspect. One shot of linking turns in powder is pretty much like the next. One giant descent or 75 foot leap off a cliff band looks like another. Many of the shots are staged just like in climbing too!
Do I want to see the 5.14 equivalent in the skiing world? I don't really care about it, so no, I reckon I don't. Do I want to see fat dudes on bunny slopes?
Nooooooo. I'm at a place in my skiing where pics of others doing it really don't do anything positive for me, unless its specifically something I have done or want to do. Same for climbing I reckon.
DMT
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 10:42 PM
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In reply to: good discontinue your subscription maybe soon you will realize that you are a s--- climber, anyone can climb 5.7, then hopefully you will do the climbing world a favor and quit!
You're really quite emotional.
DMT
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dingus
Jun 1, 2006, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: Have you considered writing to the climbing mags directly, instead of posting about it here? Or submitting your own photos that show what you want to see?
Nope. I wasn't really trying to crack the fraternal world of climbing mags or change how they do bidness. It was more about the photos themselves and plenty of similar images get voted onto the fp here every day. I feel this is the perfect venue to discuss.
In reply to: FWIW, when I submit shots, I try to include a healthy mixture of moderate-to-hardish sport, not-that-hard trad, and bouldering-for-mortals. It's not easy breaking into that world, but I have had a shot of a 5.9 sport route published. So the shots are out there...
Its worth something, imo. A few of your Forks photos actually stand out in my mind with unique perspective that seems to avoid the cult of personality that so pervades the magazines. Not to brown nose you (you scare me climbsomething, you scare me bad), but yours is the sort of perspective I wish had more traction.
DMT
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kubi
Jun 1, 2006, 10:57 PM
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In reply to: Climbing Media is meant to open peoples minds to what is possible and show how far the limits can be pushed.
Actually climbing media is meant to entertain people. If a signifigant % of the population would be willing to buy a magazine called "Lardass Tradster Monthly" then those companies are missing out on a valuble market.
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climbsomething
Jun 2, 2006, 6:27 AM
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In reply to: (you scare me climbsomething, you scare me bad) |
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