|
deserteaglle
Apr 6, 2006, 5:26 PM
Post #26 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 1617
|
B-Dog, you knopw I'm always down for breaking da law, but isn't it going to be pretty hard to run away with your foot in a cast? :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
craftedpacket
Apr 6, 2006, 5:45 PM
Post #27 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2004
Posts: 187
|
Ya we might have to wait another month...but hey...4 pitches of 5.7 - 5-8 I might could do that in my cast lol.
|
|
|
|
|
hillbillywannabe
Apr 6, 2006, 5:45 PM
Post #28 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 16, 2005
Posts: 415
|
i dont think there will be any running, they probly have some sort of super rap anchor at the top so they can just get their gigantic rope that goes all the way to the bottom and rap down to you and cuff you to a bolt and leave you there to die. yeah the boyscouts are cool like that...
|
|
|
|
|
haydukematt
Jun 23, 2006, 2:27 PM
Post #29 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 6
|
Little late in the thread here, but I was bored at work and stumbled across this as I was googling things....anyways here's the deal with the tooth:
If you're not a staff member at philmont and you climb it they will press charges for tresspassing, if you are a staff member and you get caught they will fire you, several staffers in the '80's were fired for this I believe.
That being said, it's pretty easy to not get caught, you can un-rope at the end of the 4th pitch and 3rd class it to the summit with all your gear hidden in backpacks.
The route is 4 pitches of mostly 5.7 to 5.8 with a 5.10ish move on the first pitch. Nothing too tricky about the gear placements though if you're a competent trad climber. I know it was climbed in '02 but not sure of any more recent. It's a great route as far as I know...if you work there I'd say it's worth the risk...just keep your mouth shut about it and start early in the morning.
|
|
|
|
|
craftedpacket
Jun 23, 2006, 2:50 PM
Post #30 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2004
Posts: 187
|
^^^Interesting.
But if your not a boyscout...or your not an employee there...I wonder how hard it is to get on the land. Perhaps as simple as jumping a fence? I have not seen the rock in person...just pictures.
|
|
|
|
|
csgambill
Jun 23, 2006, 2:57 PM
Post #31 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2004
Posts: 607
|
It would be extremely easy to get on the land. I was there once before everything got rolling for the summer season and I remember the place basically being a ghost town.
|
|
|
|
|
haydukematt
Jun 23, 2006, 3:07 PM
Post #32 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 6
|
getting on the land is pretty easy there's an area where the staff park a couple miles from the base near a big fort looking thing called the stockade, however all the staff cars are required to have a philmont parking sticker. The road there is un-gated and pretty easy to get to, however it's a fairly high traffic road for philmont (lot of hikers and philmont vehicles) I guess it just depends how far you're willing to hike and maybe hope a barbed wire fence or two since there are some pull offs from the main public road near there.
|
|
|
|
|
landgolier
Jun 23, 2006, 3:50 PM
Post #33 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 714
|
Getting to the base wouldn't be a problem, there are touristas and parents and stuff wandering around all the time, but if you want to poach this sucker you need to keep in mind that the whole camp can see you the whole time. It is at a pretty good distance, but in season I bet there's not a moment of the day when there isn't at least one set of binoculars pointed at that thing. When there aren't scouts there there will be less surveilance but it will be harder to get in. Also keep in mind that in season 2 or 3 people walking off of there will look weird even if there are lots of people around (philmont groups are bigger than that), and IIRC there will be rangers up there since some backpacking routes go up the tooth right off the bat.
I know I'm not going to be able to talk somebody out of it if poaching gives them wood, but it's not like there's a shortage of long moderates in NM. Go climb somewhere else. Also remember that if you get into trouble up there you're either going to be dealing with a BSA SAR team that won't be very good at doing big wall technical face plucks and won't be real happy to be there, or you're going to be waiting a freakin' long time while a team comes over from Taos or the ski area or something.
|
|
|
|
|
mrcoolshoes1105
Jun 23, 2006, 3:56 PM
Post #34 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2006
Posts: 51
|
Ah the Tooth... i scrambled up the back in the early morning one day in 2002 on my trek, and it was one of the most amazing sunrises i ever witnessed. Seeing the pics on this thread makes me want to go back real bad.
The BSA and climbing....yeah, about that.
|
|
|
|
|
rgbscan
Jun 23, 2006, 4:34 PM
Post #35 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2003
Posts: 106
|
I visited philmont twice as a scout back in the early 90's. I seem to recall that both group photos taken by the philmont staff featured the tooth as a backdrop. Who knows, if you pull it off you might be forever preserved in someone's camp picture. Tell me that wouldn't be sweet.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
haydukematt
Jun 23, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #36 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 6
|
I say poach away...the route isn't to terribly tough and it's stupid that the ranch management at philmont won't let you climb it even when there are no scouts present. They're willing to let big doner to the BSA go big game hunting in the off season, so what's wrong with climbing....we're not shooting up the place! Also it's not like you'll be risking ruining access for other climbers or anything like that....their policy isn't going to change anytime soon. As for getting caught, it's not like there's a "climbing police" at philmont....i doubt they spend too much time even thinking about it unless sombody as been talking it up amongst the staff that particular summer.
The tooth is definately the coolest route there, but there's actually a good bit of climbing thoughout the ranch, but unless you're working there on staff it's not worth tesspassing for. But there are trad and sport lines from as easy as you want up to 5.11/5.12 and a bunch of good bouldering too. Every few years there's a bunch of actual climbers that work there and there more then enough rock to climb and have fun there on...especially the tooth!
|
|
|
|
|
csgambill
Jun 23, 2006, 5:48 PM
Post #37 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2004
Posts: 607
|
Now, in light of the Dean Potter/Delicate Arch incident, would the climbing community get upset if somebody climbed the Tooth of Time sans permission from the BSA?
A couple of differences between the two climbs:
1. Arches is on public (fed govt. land)
2. Delicate Arch is more likely to fall apart than the Tooth of Time
3. Screwing around at Arches can threaten access, while there is currently no access at Philmot Scout Ranch, so there is little for the climbing community to loose from such an action.
Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
icyfrosty
Jun 23, 2006, 6:05 PM
Post #38 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 31
|
I know this will sound kinda crazy. BUT why not scope it out during the day and climb it during the night :) It's a big more "epic" but your probably won't be seen during your night mission !
Just my less than 2 cent !
Icy, It's dark i'm lost where the map for this ?!?!, Frosty
|
|
|
|
|
landgolier
Jun 23, 2006, 6:20 PM
Post #39 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 714
|
Ummm...unless you're going to run up it under a full moon, I'm pretty sure somebody would see two headlamps up there.
|
|
|
|
|
haydukematt
Jun 23, 2006, 6:23 PM
Post #40 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 6
|
I don't think the climbing community should have a problem with someone climbing the tooth w/out permission, mostly for a lot of the reason's listed above.
The no climbing rule is largley just becasue the BSA dosen't want to get sued by a climber who hurts themselves on the route. The tooth isn't going to fall apart like delicate arch could...it's dacite porphery (sp) bascially an igneous rock that's pretty close to granite, but not quite, so i wouldn't worry about environmental concerns climbing it. The only conern i had would be if a scout/camper saw and tried to climb it themselves without the proper skills....but in my book that's their own stupidity if they hurt themselves that way. The climbing ban is just a stupid c.y.a. rule.
The access issue is pretty much just what you said...climbers (even on staff) aren't suppose to climb on the "non-program" routes anyways, so there's really nothing to lose except maybe some cash if you get caught.
|
|
|
|
|
flatstateclimber
Jun 26, 2006, 2:05 PM
Post #41 of 43
(4481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 71
|
In reply to: The only conern i had would be if a scout/camper saw and tried to climb it themselves without the proper skills....but in my book that's their own stupidity if they hurt themselves that way. The climbing ban is just a stupid c.y.a. rule.
Therein lies the rub then. It pretty well sounds like it's not an issue of if a camper sees you, it's when. You can't blame stupidity if a kid goes up there and tries to climb it without supervision or proper equipment or skill level. By and large, the campers there are teenagers, moreso than the adults on the treks with them. Remember what you were like as a teenage boy? "That's f'in cool! I wanna do it. I'm invincible!!!"
Sidenote, having been a scout myself at Philmont, that thought never entered my mind. Now, had I seen someone climbing it while I was there, that would've infinitely more intriguing than the bunny slope slab climbs they put us on in Cimarroncito.
|
|
|
|
|
bongbong
Dec 11, 2009, 12:58 AM
Post #42 of 43
(2601 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 5
|
I was Philmont Staff in 1995 at Cito. I hiked to the bottom of the Tooth with gear. My plan was to rope solo (as nobody else was willing to risk being fired for climbing the Tooth). As I was setting a base anchor (rope solo rig), a thunderstorm explodes above me. It rained long enough that I had to bail. Maybe it was God's way of saying, the glory of the first solo of the tooth wasn't to be mine. I still think of that day roped up, ready to go, rain drops falling.
(I did bag a FA on the Grizzly Tooth that same weekend, and got the first onsight on a 12- at cito, so it wasn't exactly a bad summer.)
To do the tooth, you'd need to be Philmont Staff and expect to be fired if caught. That was our understanding - climb it and get fired. The rock didn't look that big from the base. It's not at all worth risking an arrest for trespassing if you are not Philmont Staff. Also, beware that kids go to the top to watch the sunrise - you can expect a hail of rocks coming down at any time.
|
|
|
|
|
jlong25
May 20, 2011, 12:37 AM
Post #43 of 43
(2315 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2011
Posts: 1
|
I would say someone climbs this every year, alot of climbers work on the staff. It is off limits so anyone who gets caught gets fired. |
|
|
|
|
|
