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gunked
Aug 14, 2002, 5:31 PM
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Hey all,
Not sure if this should be in trad or ice or alpine! Regardless, does anybody have information on the use of double ropes or maybe they're half ropes? Is there a difference?
I understand the advantages:
-If one gets chopped, there's one left
-Less weight, longer rappels
-Able to maximize gear potential by using separate cracks
-any more?
I'd like to know specifics about their use on lead. Am I supposed to clip both ropes through the same biner when I get the chance? Etc.........
I have a set of Maxim (8.8 I think? ) 50 meters that have been sitting in my closet for a couple of years. I plan to use them for moving light and fast bagging peaks in Tuolumne next month. Mt Conness, Mathes Crest, etc... I would also like to use them for ice when I move back to New England this winter.
Thanx for the info!
Jason
[ This Message was edited by: gunked on 2002-08-14 10:33 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gunked on 2002-08-14 14:03 ]
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punk
Aug 14, 2002, 6:12 PM
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Just FYI about double and twin ropes…they do emphasize the shock load on the pro to a point that it might rip…so , double u MUST clip alternately (the rope property is with less elongation read higher impact force… sufficient enough to hold a fall singularly) twin MUST clip together on separate biners to the same pro(higher elongation Lower impact force per strand…but not sufficient enough to hold a fall singularly )
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-14 11:13 ]
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climbjs
Aug 14, 2002, 6:23 PM
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Good info Ball-nut and punk. Thanks!
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punk
Aug 14, 2002, 7:42 PM
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Ok practically it is multiplying the impact force on the pro by 2 and it applies to any piece of pro…however I do know that immediate out of the anchor some climbers will clip the 2 together to eliminate FF2 and then go alternately about clipping (I pertains to double rope) …I will produce supporting documents soon
Double Ropes
rope in general
increase impact force double rope discussion
still on the lookout for a document about increase impact force
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-14 13:28 ]
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mountainmonkey
Aug 14, 2002, 8:03 PM
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Check this out:
http://www.usmga.net/guidelines/guidelinesropes.htm
I have been using Double Ropes for almost a year and a half. I love them. They are a pain in the arse at belays but leading on them is sweet. There is a lot less drag and you can put more pieces in on wandering routes. I feel the most bomber you can be is when you put two pieces next to eachother and clip them each with thier own rope. Then, if you fall, both pieces and both ropes will catch you at the same time - no need to equalize. When you are about to do a sketchy clip, your belayer can keep to tight to the last piece and feed you rope to clip the next piece (takes practice). Also you dont need to drag up a rope if you are rappeling. And there is no better way to bring up two followers- just take care to protect both on traverses. Take a look at the self rescue section on double rope rescue - one more rope to work with makes things easier.
I do feel a need to clarify:
Double Ropes: Clip ropes into alternate pieces (unless the route traverses or wanders - left rope on left pieces, right rope on right pieces). Only clip the ropes to the same piece if you need to avoid the stretch in the rope (ledge fall) and clip each rope through its own biner so one rope doesn't burn the other.
Twin Ropes: Clip both ropes to every piece with its own biner if possible.
What every you choose, be sure you practice on easy/less serious stuff before you get flustered on a sketchy route. Also I would suggest getting a high friction device since you will be holding the fall on a small (<9mm) rope.
I used double Edelweiss stratos 9mm until one got the sheath cut through. Now just waiting to replace the one...
casey bernal
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tradklime
Aug 14, 2002, 8:45 PM
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If you have a bomber placement or bolt it's fine and good to clip doubles into the same piece. If you have a questionable placement, clipping just one will create less impact force on the piece.
Also you can clip them into the same biner if the ropes are following the same path. If there is a chance that they will have a significant difference in stretch, use different biners.
[ This Message was edited by: tradklime on 2002-08-14 13:48 ]
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gunked
Aug 14, 2002, 9:03 PM
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As usual, very informative replies! I love this site!!!
That gunks double-rope link was pretty cool.
Here's even a dumber question : How do I know if they're half or doubles if I can't find the original tag? I'm feeling kind of sheepish on this last question as I consider myself a gear-head and usually save all this info just in case. So please be gentle with your responses.
HINT : "Only A moron would by climbing gear and not know what he bought!" or "..don't you know your life depends on reading directions???" are examples of BAD responses
Just kidding, FIRE AWAY!!
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tradklime
Aug 14, 2002, 10:01 PM
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Half and double ropes are the same. You can check the tape at the rope ends half ropes will have 1/2 on it.
Twins are the ones you should clip together at every piece.
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darkside
Aug 14, 2002, 11:18 PM
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Hey punk: I couldn't help noticing the links you used. One is co-incidentally in my profile while the other from the gripped.com BB has a post from me there. Weird eh? Never underestimate the influence of the dark side
gunked: don't be so hard on yourself. There is nothing stupid about asking questions, only in failing to learn from the answers.
Besides, I have bought a rope (secondhand, new type of deal) and the guy wasn't sure of the length. I still haven't measured it but figure it to be a 55m, definitely not a 60m. So I guess I am as daft as you.
I have climbed with half ropes for a while now so if you have questions you can PM me for my opinion, for what it's worth.
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gunked
Aug 14, 2002, 11:26 PM
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Again, thanx guys (gals too, of course )
And Darkside, if I have any questions, I'll be sure to PM you AND May the force be with you!
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punk
Aug 14, 2002, 11:36 PM
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They are everywhere
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tradguy
Aug 28, 2002, 2:21 PM
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To add to this discussion.... Leading on doubles (halfs) is really nice. I learned to lead that way in England about 6 years ago and still really like doing it for wandering routes. It's also good for back country routes where you don't want to pack in a heavy load, because two 9 mm ropes weighs about 1/3 less than two 11 mm ropes of the same length. And it's also really handy when you've got 2 seconds - a nice implementation of using the reverso to belay 2 seconds simulatenously.
Twin ropes, as has been stated, need to both be clipped into every piece of gear. When getting twins, you should buy both ropes of the same type, same diameter, from the same manufacturer. Different sizes and types have different working elongation properties, and if they stretch differently, you get rope-on-rope friction, and end up with uneven distribution of force on the ropes. I almost always use twins when mountaineering or ice climbing - saves weight, and provides redundancy in case the rope gets stuck with a crampon or something.
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mount
Aug 31, 2002, 9:42 AM
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BRAVO TO ALL. That was the best explanation I've ever read on the radiation box. Thanks Punk!
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