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arnoilgner
Jul 16, 2006, 3:58 AM
Post #26 of 32
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Registered: Aug 8, 2003
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I've climbed free solo, runout trad (both no fall situations) as well as well protected sport/trad. I've never wanted to rest or thought I could rest by falling onto my last piece when in a no fall situation.
What goes through folks heads when they are preparing to run it out or are getting runout? For me, I'm constantly weighing how much strength I have compared to what what still needs to be done. If I don't think I have enough strength I won't commit. If I do think I have enough strength to continue I do commit. I never think I can safely escape the stress by just falling when runout. And, any falling practice or falling experience I have absolutely does not convince me that taking a fall in a runout situation is what I need to do to escape and rest. Interesting concept, if I'm reading the posts correctly.
arno
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dirtineye
Jul 17, 2006, 1:50 PM
Post #27 of 32
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It's worth noting that the belayer must also be part of the plan, and have a plan of his own, in the case of a fall where gear rips.
I'm really glad Sron posted his direct thoughts about falling in his last post. I think too many people try to claim that the RWW advocates a cavailer attitude about falling, and that is NOT the case. Many others seem to think that fallign on gear is some wonderful event to revel in, but that is not right either.
Arno is not cavailer about falling at all, he just believes that when you are falling, you should be able to make the best of it. EVery time I've seen arno do his falling clinics or practice sessions, they are VERY safe, with the falling point well backed up.
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vector
Jul 21, 2006, 9:58 PM
Post #28 of 32
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First of all, I want to concur with Dirt that Arno advocates safe falling practice and teaches it in a safe manner (safe being a relative term, of course).
Speaking to Tradman's posts, I think there is a valid point to be made that you have to keep a clear head about the dangers of falling in different situations. Most of us, like Arno describes, have enough native fear of falling that we do not get complacent and are very aware when we are runout, over sketchy gear, have a bad fall potential, etc. But I do know climbers that are missing this 'fear' gene. It does not make them bad people and I don't want them to have to get hurt to develop good safety practices. But if you are not scared you need to be extra-careful to use your conscious brain in replacement of primal-fear.
This point comes home to me in another area. I live in a city and riding a bike is great way to get around town quickly. You can easily outpace a car sitting in traffic. Not when it comes to climbing I am as scared of falling as they come, but for some reason riding my bike in and out of traffic does not scare me as much as most people. But I would bet that statistically riding a bike in city traffic is more dangerous climbing (I could be wrong). I have to _force_ myself to be _conscious_ of the danger of some things that I do on a bike in traffic to compensate for the lack of fear.
As I said earlier, I have known a few climbers who don't have much fear (or don't listen to their fear due to ego, which RWW _definitely_ covers very well). Some of them have learned to be more careful after an injury, some seem to refuse to learn.
Now possibly too much fall practice could go down like Tradman suggests. If you develop a habit of pushing to falling, which is _not_ mitigated by natural fear, you might forget to asses the consequences before pushing into a fall scenario. But I am going to assert that something else is far more likely. I think that a good bit of fall practice will help some people that are not afraid develop a intellectual understanding of what happens when you fall, and how unpredictable it can be without a broad base of fall experience in different scenarios (much like showing teenagers pictures of car wrecks). I think you are better off getting the experience of falling in a controlled situation that at some random unexpected point in the future. One can only hope that almost everyone would learn from this and make better choices.
Now having said all that, what are the chances of the fear-deficient people being in the forum and reading this? Oh, well, I hope the choir enjoyed the sermon.
Henry
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sky7high
Jul 25, 2006, 12:20 AM
Post #29 of 32
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Totally great advice from all of you.
However, there's another kind of falling practice, and that is falling without a rope (perhaps a little less expensive, till you break somethin' ) It helps feeling confortable when bouldering or leading before the first anchor. Take into consideration how a crash pad will react when you fall upon it. A very common mistake is placing two large crash pads and falling in the middle. Very painful. Put some small crash pads in the middle to avoid this.
By the way I think it's never safe or intelligent to think one can "just fall" to the next piece of pro for a rest, no matter how experienced, no one can totally, surely predict a fall. (the variables are just too many)
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_fiend_
Nov 17, 2006, 8:37 AM
Post #30 of 32
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Registered: Nov 3, 2005
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[reply]Sometimes I get the comment that you shouldn't do falling practice because it ruins your rope. My reply to that is: Do you climb for the rope or do you buy ropes so you can climb. Yes, all of this stuff is hard on the equipment but that's what we buy equipment for: in order to climb and improve our climbing.
arno[/reply]
Bought a new rope the other day, just for indoors.
Went down the wall last night, took a few jumps, couple of reasonably sized ones with the bolt below my feet. Was a bit scary but good. Also pushed myself on some routes, but didn't fall off because, errr, I did them.
It's all good.
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dredsovrn
Feb 26, 2007, 11:21 PM
Post #31 of 32
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Registered: May 24, 2003
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Definitely an important practice. I don't do it everytime I go, but when I feel like fear is holding me back, I do.
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lindajft
Feb 27, 2007, 12:47 AM
Post #32 of 32
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Registered: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 68
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trad or sport
for whatever reason, I can fall on sport. Having a difficult time trusting the trad. I know, ironic.
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