|
raymondjeffrey
Aug 1, 2006, 12:35 AM
Post #1 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2004
Posts: 361
|
"There is nothing wrong with bolting cracks. It let's those folks who are afraid of trad to lead the crack".
I actually over-heard that at Jack's Canyon; I almost pissed myself.
Your thoughts?
Jefro
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 1, 2006, 1:01 AM
Post #2 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Its not a matter of religion for me. I don't consider those words blasphemous.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
raymondjeffrey
Aug 1, 2006, 1:08 AM
Post #3 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2004
Posts: 361
|
You're correct, those words are not blasphemous; they are just down right humorous. "Afraid of trad" just cracks me up.
I could not care less about bolted cracks; I just tend to think that the person who bolted it kinda wasted their money on bolts and hangers. S/he should have bolted the face a little to the left or right of said crack and put anchors between the top of the crack and the newly developed face route and that way the two routes could share anchors.
Carry On,
Jefro
|
|
|
|
|
docburner
Aug 1, 2006, 1:09 AM
Post #4 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 192
|
Did you really have to start a second flame war thread when we already have a good enough one going on that you could have posted in?
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Aug 1, 2006, 1:11 AM
Post #5 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
Bosch Bulldog drill, 3/8" SS bolts, SS Hangers - $486.32
Breaker bar, 9/16" socket, and plumbers' stick epoxy - priceless
|
|
|
|
|
phang_nga
Aug 1, 2006, 1:13 AM
Post #6 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2006
Posts: 326
|
How do you put a bolt in a crack? It sounds a bit sketchy to me...
|
|
|
|
|
rhythm164
Aug 1, 2006, 1:19 AM
Post #7 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 964
|
There's nothing wrong with bolting cracks, IF you're a big pussy.
|
|
|
|
|
raymondjeffrey
Aug 1, 2006, 1:20 AM
Post #8 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 2, 2004
Posts: 361
|
I actually thought that I was responding to the OP. I am not a computer person, just a meat-head.
Carry On,
Jefro
|
|
|
|
|
kricir
Aug 1, 2006, 3:22 AM
Post #9 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 434
|
Bolting a crack isn't really wrong, its just stupid. If there is a sport climb that has a place for one or two pieces of gear, it might as well be bolted because its silly to haul an entire rack up there for 1 placement, but if a significant portion of a climb can be protected with gear then bolting it is just unnecessary.
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Aug 1, 2006, 3:24 AM
Post #10 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
hmmm, apart from possibly bringing down the aesthetic value of a crack line, I don't see what harm bolting a crack does. Other than maybe making it cheaper, safer and therefore easier for other people to come climb it.
I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist.
I know this is gonna put many people on this sites panties in a bunch, but that's the way I see it. I'm not going to go out and bolt some cracks, but I have no problem with a) FAs bolting cracks and b) climbing on said bolted cracks.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Aug 1, 2006, 3:25 AM
Post #11 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: I actually thought that I was responding to the OP. I am not a computer person, just a meat-head. Carry On, Jefro
CABEZA DE CARNE! AYE!
*abrazo*
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Aug 1, 2006, 4:10 AM
Post #12 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
In reply to: I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist.
Ah, the old "trad climbing is expensive and [lordy!] complicated" elitist argument. No, actually it's about the rock, not the climbers - vestigial LNT and all that prehistoric thought as it were - as opposed to "modern" thinking that focuses on simply providing another fine entertainment product to risk-averse, entitlement-challenged suburban consumers.
|
|
|
|
|
squamishdirtbag
Aug 1, 2006, 4:29 AM
Post #13 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 115
|
In reply to: hmmm, apart from possibly bringing down the aesthetic value of a crack line, I don't see what harm bolting a crack does. Other than maybe making it cheaper, safer and therefore easier for other people to come climb it. I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. I know this is gonna put many people on this sites panties in a bunch, but that's the way I see it. I'm not going to go out and bolt some cracks, but I have no problem with a) FAs bolting cracks and b) climbing on said bolted cracks.
My panties are in a bunch. If youd allow some bolted crack climbs whats gonna stop more and more bolts, and people over the years forget how to trad, destroying whats makes the climbing experience important.
Every climber is obligated to chop'em and put the hangers to better use elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
squamishdirtbag
Aug 1, 2006, 4:29 AM
Post #14 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 18, 2005
Posts: 115
|
In reply to: hmmm, apart from possibly bringing down the aesthetic value of a crack line, I don't see what harm bolting a crack does. Other than maybe making it cheaper, safer and therefore easier for other people to come climb it. I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. I know this is gonna put many people on this sites panties in a bunch, but that's the way I see it. I'm not going to go out and bolt some cracks, but I have no problem with a) FAs bolting cracks and b) climbing on said bolted cracks.
My panties are in a bunch. If youd allow some bolted crack climbs whats gonna stop more and more bolts, and people over the years forget how to trad, destroying whats makes the climbing experience important.
Every climber is obligated to chop'em and put the hangers to better use elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
the_iceman
Aug 1, 2006, 4:35 AM
Post #15 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
|
In reply to: In reply to: I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. Ah, the old " trad climbing is expensive and [lordy!] complicated" elitist argument. No, actually it's about the rock, not the climbers - vestigial LNT and all that prehistoric thought as it were - as opposed to "modern" thinking that focuses on simply providing another fine entertainment product to risk-averse, entitlement-challenged suburban consumers.
If it's really about the rock, you can lay your fears to rest. Bolting a rock doesn't destroy it. I love how people try and push this off as being a conservation issue.
Why don't you just man up and say you don't want it to happen because you don't want people sport climbing your trad routes?
|
|
|
|
|
boombewm
Aug 1, 2006, 4:49 AM
Post #16 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 109
|
blow it up
|
|
|
|
|
treyfrancisclimbs
Aug 1, 2006, 4:54 AM
Post #17 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2004
Posts: 170
|
In reply to: How do you put a bolt in a crack? It sounds a bit sketchy to me...
well, just wrap some bailing wire around the nut end and you can slot the expansion collar into a nice fitting crack
|
|
|
|
|
flying_k
Aug 1, 2006, 5:07 AM
Post #18 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 16
|
I have got to start selling bolts. soon the world will be covered.
|
|
|
|
|
pyrrhonota
Aug 1, 2006, 5:08 AM
Post #19 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2006
Posts: 33
|
I can appreciate bolting climbs that can not be protected any other way, but a users of what ever are we are in we have the shared responsibility of minimizing impact on the area and following a leave no trace ethic.
Bolting cracks unnecessarily increases impact on an area and as a result can make our sport more visible to non climber who may think that we are abusing our privilege to develop an area.
Same line of thought on chalk, what is stopping so many people from using a chalk ball and colored chalk to blend in with the rock? So what if it works slightly less well for super sweaty fingers, it still works.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Aug 1, 2006, 5:12 AM
Post #20 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
In reply to: There's nothing wrong with bolting cracks, IF you're a big sissy.
so you calling crack climbers sissy
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Aug 1, 2006, 5:30 AM
Post #21 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. Ah, the old " trad climbing is expensive and [lordy!] complicated" elitist argument. No, actually it's about the rock, not the climbers - vestigial LNT and all that prehistoric thought as it were - as opposed to "modern" thinking that focuses on simply providing another fine entertainment product to risk-averse, entitlement-challenged suburban consumers. If it's really about the rock, you can lay your fears to rest. Bolting a rock doesn't destroy it. I love how people try and push this off as being a conservation issue. Why don't you just man up and say you don't want it to happen because you don't want people sport climbing your trad routes?
Actually, it's hard to count the number of attributes of rock that bolts don't destroy. And I did just say don't screw up the rock so you can sport climb. Man up and learn to trad climb - don't screw up the rock turning trad crags into clip joints just so you can avoid stressing your supply of dollars, neurons, and emotional reserves.
|
|
|
|
|
tonloc
Aug 1, 2006, 5:36 AM
Post #22 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 249
|
some traddies can be oh so righteous...i'm not for bolting cracks, i think variety in climbing is cool, but its such a purist bullshit mentality, most of them shit on boudlering which is "purer" and has less impact...
|
|
|
|
|
valeberga
Aug 1, 2006, 5:44 AM
Post #23 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 434
|
Boulder all the cracks you want, tonloc. Around here in fact, people "boulder" 2000-foot crack routes on a regular basis. But please try not to use so much chalk, mmkay?
|
|
|
|
|
the_iceman
Aug 1, 2006, 5:45 AM
Post #24 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 347
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. Ah, the old " trad climbing is expensive and [lordy!] complicated" elitist argument. No, actually it's about the rock, not the climbers - vestigial LNT and all that prehistoric thought as it were - as opposed to "modern" thinking that focuses on simply providing another fine entertainment product to risk-averse, entitlement-challenged suburban consumers. If it's really about the rock, you can lay your fears to rest. Bolting a rock doesn't destroy it. I love how people try and push this off as being a conservation issue. Why don't you just man up and say you don't want it to happen because you don't want people sport climbing your trad routes? Actually, it's hard to count the number of attributes of rock that bolts don't destroy. And I did just say don't screw up the rock so you can sport climb. Man up and learn to trad climb - don't screw up the rock turning trad crags into clip joints just so you can avoid stressing your supply of dollars, neurons, and emotional reserves.
That fist sentence is hard to understand I think you're saying bolting DOES destroy rock, but it doesn't read that way. If you really think that bolting rocks has any major affects on them, there's not much I can do to help you understand it.
Further more, I've seen plenty of places where a trad climber who didn't like having bolts, has beat the shit out of the rock to pull the bolt. Damaging the rock far more than bolting it ever would.
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Aug 1, 2006, 5:47 AM
Post #25 of 252
(18426 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
In reply to: In reply to: I realise over-crowding can be a problem in places and many people cherish trad especially because it requires extra knowledge of gear and keeps people out, but this is enherently elitist. Ah, the old " trad climbing is expensive and [lordy!] complicated" elitist argument.
LOL, what? you're going to tell me it's not? Not that I have a problem with it, having spent 2-3 times the price I paid for my car on gear. I don't mind buying gear a single bit, but do I think it should be necessary to force people who want to learn new climbing skills/moves to buy trad gear, I don't think so.
In reply to: No, actually it's about the rock, not the climbers - vestigial LNT and all that prehistoric thought as it were - as opposed to "modern" thinking that focuses on simply providing another fine entertainment product to risk-averse, entitlement-challenged suburban consumers.
LOL, cause piton scars are natural? Repetitive gear placements that damage the rock are not a problem? A 4 foot lichen-free swatch of rock going up either side of a crack is natural? Give me a break. If you really wanted to be LNT, you would stay at home.
And it's not about entitlement, it's about sharing what I enjoy with other people. Personally, what I enjoy is climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
