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hosh
Sep 28, 2006, 6:12 PM
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So, just a question... how many pitches do you have to climb before it's not multi-pitch any more, but bigwall? And at what altitude to the deer turn into elk? hosh.
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summerprophet
Sep 28, 2006, 6:15 PM
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Overnighters are the realm of bigwalls. That being said, I have spent the night on a 30 mtr wall training my partner for Yosemite. Would that classify as the shortest bigwall ever?
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caughtinside
Sep 28, 2006, 6:38 PM
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Hmm, maybe not number of pitches, but grade? How about Grade V?
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hosh
Sep 28, 2006, 7:14 PM
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I was just thinking, because in Alpinsit 17, some guy did a "bigwall" first free ascent, but it didn't see mlike that many pitches (Can't remember how many off the top o' my head...) And the done in a day stuff in Yos, that's "bigwall", but Tommy Caldwell and the like are doing it in less than 24 hours... Just wondering what the cut off was. And Still wondering about the deer and the elk... hosh.
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hosh
Sep 28, 2006, 7:19 PM
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I was just thinking, because in Alpinsit 17, some guy did a "bigwall" first free ascent, but it didn't see mlike that many pitches (Can't remember how many off the top o' my head...) And the done in a day stuff in Yos, that's "bigwall", but Tommy Caldwell and the like are doing it in less than 24 hours... Just wondering what the cut off was. And Still wondering about the deer and the elk... hosh.
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tradclmbr
Sep 28, 2006, 7:43 PM
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similarly.....at what point does Caldwell and those in his 'company' cease to be impressively freeing aid climbs and the rest of us become chumps aiding free climbs. Caldwell's article in the Rock and Ice on free-climb el cap seemed to imply that transformation has already occured.....but perhaps (as a climber who will never free anything on el cap) Im just falling prey to letting their accomplishments devalue my own. Historically aid climbs become free climbs - but when?
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euroford
Sep 28, 2006, 8:27 PM
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grade V or bigger. whenever a typical competent party can expect to spend more than 1 day on the climb, AKA "guidebook time". both the height of the feature and type of climbing are significant factors. example, the casual route on the diamond is grade IV, not a bigwall route, the dunn/westbay is grade V and is. a couple of guys have been working on freeing the route, and many people have done it in the day, but as long as its basicly standard for it to be done in two days or longer it will be called a bigwall route. at least thats my take. there is stuff in the fishers WAY shorter thats still grade V, some even grade VI.
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mandrake
Sep 28, 2006, 8:57 PM
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In reply to: similarly.....at what point does Caldwell and those in his 'company' cease to be impressively freeing aid climbs and the rest of us become chumps aiding free climbs. Caldwell's article in the Rock and Ice on free-climb el cap seemed to imply that transformation has already occured.....but perhaps (as a climber who will never free anything on el cap) Im just falling prey to letting their accomplishments devalue my own. Historically aid climbs become free climbs - but when? That's a good question. And not academic. A couple of routes that come to mind are Regular Route on Rainbow Wall in Vegas and Monkeyfinger in Zion. Both are C1/2 and go free at like 5.12 and some change. And, depending on what topo you're looking at, they're either hard free or easy wall routes. I haven't yet done either of them, but at this point I'm more interested in improving my aid climbing than thrashing around on a free climb that's easily a full two grades over my onsight ability. OTOH I'm prideful enough that I don't want to be the chump clogging up classic free routes with my aiding... As far as grade V being the cutoff, wouldn't that make Epinephrine a big wall but Prodigal Sun not? That doesn't sound right...
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iamthewallress
Sep 28, 2006, 9:14 PM
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My def: Big walls tend to be aided and bivied on for the average party. Astroman used to be a big wall, but now the vast majority of people are going up there w/o aiders and doing it in a day. The Nose has only been freed by a few, so even though it gets climbed frequently in a day, the majority still bivy and aid all over the place. Sustained climbs take longer than non-sustained climbs, and aid climbing generally takes longer than free climbing, so pitch count and 'hardest move' grades only tell part of the story.
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hosh
Sep 28, 2006, 10:51 PM
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There's some stuff in AK that might qualify for "bigwall" but I'm a little hesitant to throw that term down before I climb those walls and before I know exactly what a consensus "bigwall" is. I guess it all depends on what the definition of "is" is... hosh.
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epoch
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Sep 29, 2006, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: There's some stuff in AK that might qualify for "bigwall" but I'm a little hesitant to throw that term down before I climb those walls and before I know exactly what a consensus "bigwall" is. I guess it all depends on what the definition of "is" is... hosh. Isn't Alaska on thier own grading system??? They have the standard YDS and then ther is the AK grade. I get very confused every time I try to make sense of that one...
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skinner
Sep 29, 2006, 1:40 PM
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In reply to: My def: Big walls tend to be aided and bivied on for the average party. Perfect, sweet and simple.
In reply to: similarly.....at what point does Caldwell and those in his 'company' cease to be impressively freeing aid climbs and the rest of us become chumps aiding free climbs. I really don't think we should feel like chumps because a handful of super-human freaks have managed to free a line that was traditionally aided. You have to consider that fact that many of these lines that have now gone free would not have been possible, had in not been for the pin scars and bolted protection in place from years of aid climbing. -Kevin
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hammerless_7
Sep 29, 2006, 1:51 PM
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Just my 2 cents but I always thought a big wall had to be at least 1500' high to earn that name, among other critera.
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