|
overlord
Sep 28, 2006, 10:09 AM
Post #1 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
and your school system??? do ppl really hate school that much??? or is it just convenient because they think children/teenagers are an easy target? http://news.bbc.co.uk/...americas/5387062.stm
In reply to: US school siege ends in bloodshed A gunman and one of the teenage girls he was holding hostage have died after police stormed a school in the US state of Colorado. The violent end to the siege in the small mountain town of Bailey came after the gunman threatened to harm the two female students he was holding. The local sheriff said the gunman had shot the hostage and then himself as police attempted to rescue the girls. The gunman initially seized six girls, but later released four of them. The injured girl was taken by helicopter to hospital in Denver, where she later died. The other girl was unhurt.
|
|
|
|
|
gvp
Sep 28, 2006, 10:24 AM
Post #2 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 22
|
Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons.
|
|
|
|
|
traddad
Sep 28, 2006, 11:35 AM
Post #3 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: 7129
|
Nah....It's just our worship of the outsider cowboy culture of violence. Sad and depressed? Kill some folks! Lost your job at the postoffice? Kill some folks! Girfriend kicked you out? Kill some folks! I would have to say that a 14 shot Glock is a LOT more efficient, though.... I'd put smileys here if they were at all appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Sep 28, 2006, 11:45 AM
Post #4 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: and your school system??? do ppl really hate school that much??? or is it just convenient because they think children/teenagers are an easy target? http://news.bbc.co.uk/...americas/5387062.stm In reply to: US school siege ends in bloodshed A gunman and one of the teenage girls he was holding hostage have died after police stormed a school in the US state of Colorado. The violent end to the siege in the small mountain town of Bailey came after the gunman threatened to harm the two female students he was holding. The local sheriff said the gunman had shot the hostage and then himself as police attempted to rescue the girls. The gunman initially seized six girls, but later released four of them. The injured girl was taken by helicopter to hospital in Denver, where she later died. The other girl was unhurt. The question should be asked, whats is it with wackos in the World. The U.S. isnt the only country with these type of problems.
|
|
|
|
|
gritstoner
Sep 28, 2006, 12:32 PM
Post #5 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2003
Posts: 529
|
In reply to: In reply to: and your school system??? do ppl really hate school that much??? or is it just convenient because they think children/teenagers are an easy target? http://news.bbc.co.uk/...americas/5387062.stm In reply to: US school siege ends in bloodshed A gunman and one of the teenage girls he was holding hostage have died after police stormed a school in the US state of Colorado. The violent end to the siege in the small mountain town of Bailey came after the gunman threatened to harm the two female students he was holding. The local sheriff said the gunman had shot the hostage and then himself as police attempted to rescue the girls. The gunman initially seized six girls, but later released four of them. The injured girl was taken by helicopter to hospital in Denver, where she later died. The other girl was unhurt. The question should be asked, whats is it with wackos in the World. The U.S. isnt the only country with these type of problems. May be not, but it seems to happen there with alarming regularity
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 28, 2006, 12:44 PM
Post #6 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: What is it with wackos in US ...we are a tolerant Nation that allows Wackos and anyone else to come here and practice wackiness....we do not hate...it's the wackos that hate.... love Belgian Chapter of Nambla
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rhaig
Sep 28, 2006, 2:13 PM
Post #9 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 2179
|
In reply to: Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons. I think it's more that people are bored and used to getting what they want and being able to blame someone else for their problems. Lethal weapons come in all shapes sizes and types. I assume you're meaning guns. Let's not hijack the thread, but suffice it to say that even countries with strict gun control have their own fair share of gun crime. I think it's attitude, not the tools that people have access to.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Sep 28, 2006, 2:22 PM
Post #10 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons. Woman murdered by a wacko with a knife. Cuts her open to "steal" her baby. New legislation needs to be passed. Outlaw all knifes. That should stop this kind of crime in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
gvp
Sep 28, 2006, 4:44 PM
Post #11 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 22
|
In reply to: In reply to: Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons. Woman murdered by a wacko with a knife. Cuts her open to "steal" her baby. New legislation needs to be passed. Outlaw all knifes. That should stop this kind of crime in the future. Let me turn that around: Ask yourself, if everyone had access to a bomb so powerful it would destroy earth, would someone be wacho enough to use it?
|
|
|
|
|
gvp
Sep 28, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #12 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 22
|
Heh, sorry about the doublepost. There is some weird bug about an email not being sent or something, making me think my post was not submitted.
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 28, 2006, 5:08 PM
Post #13 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons. Woman murdered by a wacko with a knife. Cuts her open to "steal" her baby. New legislation needs to be passed. Outlaw all knifes. That should stop this kind of crime in the future. Let me turn that around: Ask yourself, if everyone had access to a bomb so powerful it would destroy earth, would someone be wacho enough to use it? ...some would say were not to far from this being reality... Love O.B Laden
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Sep 28, 2006, 6:16 PM
Post #14 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Now...im from not from the US, but I have often wondered if it has anything to do with easy access to leathal weapons. Woman murdered by a wacko with a knife. Cuts her open to "steal" her baby. New legislation needs to be passed. Outlaw all knifes. That should stop this kind of crime in the future. Let me turn that around: Ask yourself, if everyone had access to a bomb so powerful it would destroy earth, would someone be wacho enough to use it? ...some would say were not to far from this being reality... Love O.B Laden sadly, i have to agree. i dont think its the access to weapons though. they have similar access to weapons in outer countries (even here, with all the 'gun control', if you really want a gun, you can get it easily enough, legal or not; i bet i could get an AK47 easier than in US and if i want to kidnap someone and die in the process, having an illegal gun is the least of my worries), but their wackos still usually just shoot their own heads off when theyre depressed and dont spread the misery. and someone will probably dissagree with the "want to die in the process" part. well, you cant expect to hold up a school and get away with it. the best thing that can happen to you then is the jail. so we can @ss-u-me that these ppl really want to die, but want to take someone else with them.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Sep 28, 2006, 8:17 PM
Post #15 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: and your school system??? do ppl really hate school that much??? or is it just convenient because they think children/teenagers are an easy target? http://news.bbc.co.uk/...americas/5387062.stm In reply to: US school siege ends in bloodshed A gunman and one of the teenage girls he was holding hostage have died after police stormed a school in the US state of Colorado. The violent end to the siege in the small mountain town of Bailey came after the gunman threatened to harm the two female students he was holding. The local sheriff said the gunman had shot the hostage and then himself as police attempted to rescue the girls. The gunman initially seized six girls, but later released four of them. The injured girl was taken by helicopter to hospital in Denver, where she later died. The other girl was unhurt. Question for ya Overlord? How much of your news in Celje is about the United States? Do your newspaper print local crime items that happens here in the States. I am just curious?.........Thanks Frank
|
|
|
|
|
rhaig
Sep 28, 2006, 8:24 PM
Post #16 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 2179
|
In reply to: sadly, i have to agree. i dont think its the access to weapons though. they have similar access to weapons in outer countries (even here, with all the 'gun control', if you really want a gun, you can get it easily enough, legal or not; i bet i could get an AK47 easier than in US and if i want to kidnap someone and die in the process, having an illegal gun is the least of my worries), but their wackos still usually just shoot their own heads off when theyre depressed and dont spread the misery. just like it's easy to get drugs anywhere, it's also easy to get guns anywhere. Gun laws only make it hard to get guns legally. Which isn't hard in the US if you're not a criminal, dead beat dad, psycho, or drug addict. However, guns used in crimes tend to not be of the legally obtained kind. They almost all start out that way, but somewhere along the line, they cross the line and their transfer or use becomes illegal (http://www.chron.com/...n/guns/gunpart2.html)
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Sep 28, 2006, 11:07 PM
Post #17 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
I teach at a school about 20 miles from where it happened. Students of mine went to that school last year. Many knew the girl who was killed. It's been an emotional day.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Sep 28, 2006, 11:47 PM
Post #18 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In reply to: I teach at a school about 20 miles from where it happened. Students of mine went to that school last year. Many knew the girl who was killed. It's been an emotional day. Has to be very difficult, dealing not only with your own feelings on the issue, but those of children as well. Damn.... :( My best thoughts heading your way, guy. Holler if we can help.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Sep 29, 2006, 7:43 AM
Post #19 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
In reply to: Question for ya Overlord? How much of your news in Celje is about the United States? Do your newspaper print local crime items that happens here in the States. I am just curious?.........Thanks Frank actually, i dont think this got reported in the papers at all, at least the ones i read. i was reported in the news and on the internet. and i rarely see any local crime items about the US in our media apart from some statistics that surface every now and then. thats logical as we have enough stolen bycicles in our own country :P
In reply to: just like it's easy to get drugs anywhere, it's also easy to get guns anywhere. Gun laws only make it hard to get guns legally. Which isn't hard in the US if you're not a criminal, dead beat dad, psycho, or drug addict. However, guns used in crimes tend to not be of the legally obtained kind. They almost all start out that way, but somewhere along the line, they cross the line and their transfer or use becomes illegal thats my point exactly. if you want a gun to commit a crime with, you can obtain it easily enough in (probably) most parts of the world, anti-gun laws or not.
|
|
|
|
|
gvp
Sep 29, 2006, 10:29 AM
Post #20 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 22
|
So let me get this correct...the impression I have that more people die by gunfire in the US than in Europe is wrong? I would think, that if someone got in an argument with their girlfriend, and was emotionally "out there", there would be a higher risk of a fatality if a gun was lying around in the house. Now, I know you now will say that there for sure would be a knife in the house, and if there was no gun the knife would be used. I don't believe that, mostly because I think its a lot more personal, up close and bloody/coldblooded to stab someone with a knife until they die. Feel free to go to http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.1/GunFacts4-1-Print.pdf and find you favorite excuse for wanting guns. It's funded by the guys making money off of guns, so you can be sure they will tell you something like the way into heaven is by having more guns than your neighbor or something. I just never understood the need to have stuff lying around with the sole purpose of killing things. If some big guy wants to kick my ass, and I don't have a gun he will kick my ass. If some big guy wants to kick my ass, and everyone have a gun, he will know I have a gun and bring one himself. We can now kill each other and the one alive gets to kick the dead guys ass. Just a stupid European guys point of view.
|
|
|
|
|
rhaig
Sep 29, 2006, 12:22 PM
Post #21 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 2179
|
In reply to: So let me get this correct...the impression I have that more people die by gunfire in the US than in Europe is wrong? does it happen more often? It's certainly more visible whenever it happens. Does anyone remember a school shooting in andover, ks? What about columbine, co? The reason you remember columbine is the reporting was different. The media here has become further left and reports more vigorously on gun related crimes. I won't try to convince anyone in this argument, because it's obvious you won't change your minds. But I just want everyone to realize that guns are used in crimes elsewhere too, even in high gun-control countries. The reporting of those crimes also certainly varries from place to place.
In reply to: I would think, that if someone got in an argument with their girlfriend, and was emotionally "out there", there would be a higher risk of a fatality if a gun was lying around in the house. Now, I know you now will say that there for sure would be a knife in the house, and if there was no gun the knife would be used. I don't believe that, mostly because I think its a lot more personal, up close and bloody/coldblooded to stab someone with a knife until they die. I'd agree that a knife is a much more personal weapon. I wish there were numbers on how many of the guns used in household crimes were legally purchased and/or if the actor had prior history of violence. But I haven't found numbers like that, and statistics are always suspect.
In reply to: Feel free to go to http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.1/GunFacts4-1-Print.pdf and find you favorite excuse for wanting guns. It's funded by the guys making money off of guns, so you can be sure they will tell you something like the way into heaven is by having more guns than your neighbor or something. I prefer guncite, they seem to cite more general stats. The problem with looking at numbers online (whether you're looking at pro-gun or anti-gun reports) is figuring out what they are actually saying. Also look atthe source of the numbers. Take numbers from pro-gun sites and from anti-gun sites. Try to find the same statistic in both places. Both sides twist and selectively report stats to their benefit.
In reply to: I just never understood the need to have stuff lying around with the sole purpose of killing things. If some big guy wants to kick my ass, and I don't have a gun he will kick my ass. If some big guy wants to kick my ass, and everyone have a gun, he will know I have a gun and bring one himself. We can now kill each other and the one alive gets to kick the dead guys ass. Just a stupid European guys point of view. hey... you trust your cops to protect you. you may have better cops than we do. Our supreme court has determined that police are not required to render service and they are not responsible for our well being. With that in mind, and knowing how cops generally operate, I'd rather depend on myself for defense of my family. I live in a nice area of town. Low crime... everyone feels safe. Yesterday (really yesterday, not "the other day") a new bank 5-6 blocks from my house was robbed. The guy made his escape through our neighborhood. They found his car at a park in our neighborhood. the path between the two was withing a block of my house. This guy had a drop car, and had planned ahead. He didn't need to carjack anyone or break into anyone's house to get a car. He was smart. he called in report of a shooter at the local elementary school to disctract and occupy cops. This let him get out without a police tail and execute his plan. If things had gone sideways and he'd ended up in a standoff in someone's house, this would be a different story. No, nothing bad happened to anyone outside the bank. I'm not using this as a reason to go on a pro-gun rant. It's just an example that even though we live in a nice part of town, you never know what might happen day to day.
|
|
|
|
|
tradman
Sep 29, 2006, 12:52 PM
Post #22 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 7159
|
In reply to: Yesterday (really yesterday, not "the other day") a new bank 5-6 blocks from my house was robbed. The guy made his escape through our neighborhood. They found his car at a park in our neighborhood. the path between the two was withing a block of my house. See, to me your story makes clear the anti-gun argument. We've already established that criminals seem to have no problem getting hold of guns, so let's assume that your robber has one. Now why do you need one? To shoot at him as he runs by, provoking an unecessary firefight over insured cash? Wouldn't you be better just staying in your house and out of his way? But let's imagine that he's not as smart as you reported (pretty smart, by the way) and does break into your house to get your car. Why do you need a gun now? To shoot at an armed man, provoking a firefight in an enclosed space with your family? Wouldn't you be better off giving him your fully insured car? I think it would be obvious to most people that in the situation you described, adding more guns could only make it worse, and that you have to stretch your mind a long, long way into some kind of bizarre hostage scenario before there's any need at all for you to be waving one around.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Sep 29, 2006, 1:19 PM
Post #23 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: In reply to: Yesterday (really yesterday, not "the other day") a new bank 5-6 blocks from my house was robbed. The guy made his escape through our neighborhood. They found his car at a park in our neighborhood. the path between the two was withing a block of my house. See, to me your story makes clear the anti-gun argument. We've already established that criminals seem to have no problem getting hold of guns, so let's assume that your robber has one. Now why do you need one? To shoot at him as he runs by, provoking an unecessary firefight over insured cash? Wouldn't you be better just staying in your house and out of his way? I have a friend who shot out his TV while cleaning his weapon. His wife and two kids were home at the time and he is a police officer. Should we now say cops shouldn't be allowed to carry their side arms home? We can play the "what if" games all day long. We can say guns don't kill people, that people kill people and have no gun control at all. We can say that people are bored and uneducated and lets physco analyze these freaks to find the root cause of their malfunctions. But, I think we need to hold people accountable for their actions. Too many criminals are getting too light of sentences because they were abused, picked on, homeless, lost their jobs, wrong meds or the devil told them to do it. Just my thoughts...... But let's imagine that he's not as smart as you reported (pretty smart, by the way) and does break into your house to get your car. Why do you need a gun now? To shoot at an armed man, provoking a firefight in an enclosed space with your family? Wouldn't you be better off giving him your fully insured car? I think it would be obvious to most people that in the situation you described, adding more guns could only make it worse, and that you have to stretch your mind a long, long way into some kind of bizarre hostage scenario before there's any need at all for you to be waving one around.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Sep 29, 2006, 1:29 PM
Post #24 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: In reply to: Yesterday (really yesterday, not "the other day") a new bank 5-6 blocks from my house was robbed. The guy made his escape through our neighborhood. They found his car at a park in our neighborhood. the path between the two was withing a block of my house. See, to me your story makes clear the anti-gun argument. We've already established that criminals seem to have no problem getting hold of guns, so let's assume that your robber has one. Now why do you need one? To shoot at him as he runs by, provoking an unecessary firefight over insured cash? Wouldn't you be better just staying in your house and out of his way? But let's imagine that he's not as smart as you reported (pretty smart, by the way) and does break into your house to get your car. Why do you need a gun now? To shoot at an armed man, provoking a firefight in an enclosed space with your family? Wouldn't you be better off giving him your fully insured car? I think it would be obvious to most people that in the situation you described, adding more guns could only make it worse, and that you have to stretch your mind a long, long way into some kind of bizarre hostage scenario before there's any need at all for you to be waving one around. I have a friend that is a cop and he was cleaning his weapon while watching TV with his wife and two kids. The weapon discharged and blew a hole in his TV screen. Should we now say that cops cant bring their weapons home with them. We can say guns don't kill people, that people kill people. We can say that we should physco analyze these freaks and find the root cause of their malfunctions. We can say that people are bored and uneducated. But IMHO, we need to hold people accountable for their actions. To many times we are seeing criminals getting light sentences for terrible crimes they committed because they were abused, picked on, homeless, fired from their jobs, expelled from school, eating to much fatty foods or that the devil told them to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
thegreytradster
Sep 29, 2006, 2:15 PM
Post #25 of 93
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 2151
|
In reply to: FACTS TO PONDER: (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000. (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are120,000. (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now think about this: Guns: (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (YES, that's 80 Million) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188. Statistics courtesy of FBI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|