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legion
Nov 2, 2006, 8:23 PM
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So I think my buddy and I are doing Moonlight this weekend and both of our girlfriends want to come along so they can sleep on a portaledge which should be cool. What makes more sense: climbing as one party of four or two parties of two? My buddy and I can both lead, but neither of the girls really know how to aid though they are both very experienced free climbers. They are both competant at jugging and rapping and were considering rapping off on the second morning leaving my friend and I to finish the route as a party of two. What makes more sense? I am thinking one party of four so that we don't have to haul as much. Will it be reasonable for them to rap off? We were thinking we could send the extra gear down with them so we wouldn't have to haul the entire route.
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epic_ed
Nov 3, 2006, 5:53 PM
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*Sniff,sniff* I smell a cluster-fuck coming on. :lol:
Getting one pary of four to rocker block would probably be your best bet, but that doesn't mean I'm endorsing the idea. Please be considerate to other traffic on the route and don't attempt this circus unless there's no one waiting to start behind you. Here's how I'd do it:
Send one person off on lead who knows how to set up a haul. It's even better if this person is comfortable with soloing aiding so you can have them short fixing the next pitch while everyone else is ascending to the high point.
You may notice from the topos that the route starts up and to the left of where you're going to haul from. Leader of P1 takes lead and haul line up, fixes at the top of P1, pulls the haul line up entirely, and then gives it a mighty heave outward and hopefully all the way back to the ground where your pigs are staged. If not, the area directly above has some 3rd and 4th class stuff that you could scramble up to retrieve the rope. BTW -- if you continued up from there, that is the alternate start to the route and goes at something like .10b (?). I solo-aided this way once. Trust me -- don't do this variation unless you plan to free it.
The top of P1 is a reasonable stance and ledge system. You have all sorts of options from there as to how to proceed. If the leader is comfortable soloing, this would be a great place to let him short fix while the others are bringing up haul bags and ascending to the top of P1. Regardless, get the leader back out on lead as soon as possible.
The top of P2 is a little tight for 4 people, but you could all cram in there back in the corner and ledge system -- so again, no hanging belay for anyone. Once again have the leader pull up all slack in the lead line and then fix it. Leader sets up haul (but doesn't necessairly do the haul). Get leader out on P3 lead ASAP -- either solo or belayed.
The top of P3 is rocker block. Set up one ledge above the block. Two ledges here would be miserable. Set the second one up on the large sloping platform just below and left of rocker block. There are two bolts at that spot and it would make a good place to bivy. This allows the second party enough room and some privacy (ledge nookie?) but you're only about 15 feet from the bivy spot above and to the right of you.
From the rocker block, I'd strongly recommend the two of you plan to finish the route the next day and send the ladies back down. Nothing against women (Kate would kick my ass) but you're not going to get that circus up the rest of the route in one day unless everyone knows what they're doing. It is a full 120M back to the deck from the top of rocker block. They will need two 60M ropes of their own to do two double-rope rappels. End of first rappel ends after about 180 feet in a reasonable but exposed stance. There is an intermediate anchor station on the steep face about 120 feet below rocker block. Keep going. They will have enough rope to get to the next rap station (if using 60M ropes). This stance is at the top of a dihedral system that comes up from the ground. So what I'm saying is they need to look for the anchor station that is on the face but next to the corner system. If they have no corner next to them on the right, they are at the higher rap station and will not be able to get to the ground with one more rappel.
Anyhow -- probably more info that anyone could possibly want. Yeah, I wish I was there...have fun.
Ed
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iamthewallress
Nov 3, 2006, 6:46 PM
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Your best bet, IMO, is to find someplace more private to get snugglely w/ your girlfriends off the deck that doesn't involve crossing a river or dragging two ledges all the way up a wall and then on a 2+ hour hike back to the car.
Your scheme sounds as likely to end up pissing off your gf's (when they wait clustered at the belay for, like, ever for their turn to jug a pitch of 5.8 in the freezing shade all for the experience of setting into the very un-private portaledge for 12 hours while the sun is down).
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krusher4
Nov 3, 2006, 7:04 PM
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Seems like too much work just so the GF's can sleep on a ledge...I say hang it from a tree in your yard.
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flamer
Nov 16, 2006, 5:09 PM
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[reply]The top of P1 is a reasonable stance and ledge system. You have all sorts of options from there as to how to proceed. If the leader is comfortable soloing, this would be a great place to let him short fix while the others are bringing up haul bags and ascending to the top of P1. Regardless, get the leader back out on lead as soon as possible.
[/reply]
This would NOT be a good place to short fix.
With the long and ledgy traverse to start the either free climbing or very thin aid to start(actually alittle of both) this is a very bad candidate for short fixing...and a very dangerous.
Your best bet would be to have someone speed jug up and get you on belay while the other 2 deal with cleaning and hauling.
josh
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islandclimber
Nov 16, 2006, 6:36 PM
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Don't climb as a team of four! I did it once, and man talk about clusterfu*k.
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epic_ed
Nov 16, 2006, 8:06 PM
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In reply to: This would NOT be a good place to short fix. With the long and ledgy traverse to start the either free climbing or very thin aid to start(actually alittle of both) this is a very bad candidate for short fixing...and a very dangerous.
It's no more dangerous than soloing it, and people do that plenty often. Hell, I've done it twice, and if I can do it...enough said. The ledgy traverse protects well, IMO. But Josh is right, it gets thin as you head up for a few pieces. Regardless, work to get the leader back out on lead ASAP if you're still planning to do this. I actually hope we've talked you out of it.
Ed
(This post was edited by epic_ed on Nov 16, 2006, 10:16 PM)
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aspiringmonkey
Nov 29, 2006, 11:40 PM
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Registered: Aug 21, 2005
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I agree with flamer, this is a dangerous spot to short fix, the ledgy traverse part is loose and a big loop of slack working in and around that corner could land you splatting a ledge or swinging across and into to further back towards the belay/traverse.
I was in zion over thanksgiving and there was indeed a party of 4 on moonlight. They bivied at the top of pitch 3, where most parties fix too and then led a whole 2 pitches the next day sleeping at the top of 5 and then topped out well after dark on the third day. On pitch 4 the leader, led the pitch, then rapped it and then cleaned, while the other 3 hung out at the belay above pitch 3. This was a busy weekend in zion and this cluster frig was all over a route that is normally done by fixing and firing or doing in a push. This is a perfect example of why unexperienced parties of 4 should not be on short trade routes with bivy gear, IMHO!
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flamer
Nov 29, 2006, 11:46 PM
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epic_ed wrote: It's no more dangerous than soloing it, and people do that plenty often. Hell, I've done it twice, and if I can do it...enough said.
LOL. You're right ed. And the truth is...I've short fixed it twice.
Once for moonlight and once for LunarX.
But both times I had an extremely experinced partner with me, so the cluster and danger levels were reduced to a minimum.
It's too bad the route was so jammed up on a popular weekend....
josh
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