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ClimbingBebop
Jan 1, 2007, 8:12 PM
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Recently I received an offer to teach a sport climbing class at my college. I am currently the manager of all things climbing for our Outdoor Pursuits program, and have been climbing sport for two years strong. I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. The class is in preparation for a Alpine module which will take 15 students on a trip to Ecuador where they will make 4 summit attempts on mountains as high as 21,000. They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions!
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rock_fencer
Jan 1, 2007, 8:28 PM
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have them get comfortable with falling on lead safelyl, teach a safe and soft belay, show them how to clean and set anchors. the more they lead the more comfortable they will feel.
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overlord
Jan 1, 2007, 8:47 PM
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i hope im reading this wrong... but you are a manager for all things climbing after climbing for 2 years? in which case i sure do hope your alpine instructors have a bit more experience. or do you mean that youve been sport climbing for two years after being into trad for 10?
but, every class should go something like this:
1. belaying
2. tying in
3. clipping (dont forget backclippin, z clipping, gate orientation)
4. route finding (generally not difficult in sport climbing, but some basics wont hurt anybody)
5. building an achor, what to do if you cant finish the route
6. belaying a second
7. first aid and self rescue
8. outdoor/practical part of the class #1 single pitch
9. outdoor/practical part of the class #2 multi pitch
offcourse all those things can be learned outside, but i do suggest practising first in a safe enviroment.
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jh_angel
Jan 1, 2007, 9:06 PM
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What school is this? Also, if you're going to teach this class year after year it would be a good idea to get AMGA or some other official certification.
-Josh
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ClimbingBebop
Jan 2, 2007, 12:07 AM
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To answer your question about experience, I've only been climbing for two years, yes. I've been manager here for a little over a year now, and I'd say I've learned from the best, many of which have gone on to seek professional jobs in the climbing world. Realize that this class is in preparation for a trip that will involve many of the same fundamentals, but will not involve any sport climbing while underway. So, I'm basically charged with giving the 12-15 students a complete introduction to rock climbing and lead climbing as a building block for bigger things to come.
I really like the suggestions, especially "what to do if you can't finish the route," I think that kind of circumstantial knowledge will help make them feel more comfortable if something happens.
I won't be teaching how to build anchors, but I will do a small intro on them, The students are recieving National Ranger Training Institute Cert.'s on Rappelling and Rope Techniques, and Vertical Rope Rescue (I've already completed both) where they learn all about anchors from a very skilled teacher.
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jt512
Jan 2, 2007, 5:01 AM
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ClimbingBebop wrote: Recently I received an offer to teach a sport climbing class at my college. I am currently the manager of all things climbing for our Outdoor Pursuits program, and have been climbing sport for two years strong. I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. The class is in preparation for a Alpine module which will take 15 students on a trip to Ecuador where they will make 4 summit attempts on mountains as high as 21,000. They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions!
Y'know, if you were actually qualified for this position, you wouldn't be making this post.
Jay
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angry
Jan 2, 2007, 5:22 AM
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Sample Curriculum
Day 1 - Choose a beanie
Day 2 - Chest shaving time
Day 3 - Very hetero man time
Day 4 - Spray
Day 5 - Excuses
Day 6 - How to look strong without climbing
Have I missed anything?
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miavzero
Jan 2, 2007, 5:34 AM
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angry wrote: Sample Curriculum Day 1 - Choose a beanie Day 2 - Chest shaving time Day 3 - Very hetero man time Day 4 - Spray Day 5 - Excuses Day 6 - How to look strong without climbing Have I missed anything?
Brilliant angry,
but as a 5.12 TRAD climber, I must delve into my extensive experience to tell you that it is important for all of us netgods, I mean climbers, to be able to assert our superiority in a subtle manner. This will let everyone else know that we are badasses keeping it real.
-Marty "cough" "5.12 TRAD" "cough"
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angry
Jan 2, 2007, 6:00 AM
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How could I have forgotten!!!
Internet climbing skilz are more important than real climbing skills. I mean lots of people climb hard stuff but how many people have a clever screen name to make them sound rad.
This should be an entirely different course: NetSkillz 101, Kansasclimber is teaching of course.
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miavzero
Jan 2, 2007, 6:11 AM
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Why rely on a TA like kansasclimber when you could have a tenured professor like jt512?
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angry
Jan 2, 2007, 6:17 AM
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As a professor gets older and more senile they tend to pursue scholarly publications, sabbaticals, and boning hot grad students.
It's up to the younger generation to concern themselves with the pedagogy of their discipline.
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jimdavis
Jan 2, 2007, 6:44 AM
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ClimbingBebop wrote: Recently I received an offer to teach a sport climbing class at my college. I am currently the manager of all things climbing for our Outdoor Pursuits program, and have been climbing sport for two years strong. I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. The class is in preparation for a Alpine module which will take 15 students on a trip to Ecuador where they will make 4 summit attempts on mountains as high as 21,000. They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions!
There's nothing wrong with asking for some suggestions, and perhaps you do know what your doing....
However, I'd strongly recommend spending a couple days with an expert guide. Have him play a student, try and explain your proposed lessons to him. I bet you'll learn a lot about your presentation to students, you'll learn what you do and don't truely understand...and you'll have a really good piece of mind knowing that an expert stands behind you, if they feel you're ready for such a role.
I've caught a lot of flak on here for advocating AMGA certified guides...but in your case, I'd recommend consulting one even more so. Even if your totally up to snuff on your hard skills, your learn a lot about your presentation and participant management. Doing this with an AMGA guide gives you a little more of a legal backing, should something happen out there.
They'll be able to give you some pointers to structering lessons, time management, little tips and analogys to help beginners along, etc. You'll also probably have much more confidence in your skills and your ability to lead a group.
I spent a lot of time in an apprenticeship, teaching people how to climb. I watched a lot of people who had much more experience than I for a while, before I stepped out in front and lead the program. After I'd been doing it for 4 years, I then went and took my AMGA TRSM course with one of the most qualified guides that teaches the course, and I did it 1on1. Despite the fact that I was solid on the skills, and could have walked through the exam on the first day, I still learned more in those 4 days than I could have hoped for. I learned new perspectives, new ways to look at things, new options, some time saving tricks, ect. I also have a great paper trail to produce in court, should the need ever arise.
If you've got the experience to take the course, try and get in on the AMGA's Rock Instructor course...or whatever they call it now.
If your doing this for your school, you may even be able to get them to pick up the tab. If you want some help locating a good guide, PM me and I'll see if I know someone in your area.
I really can't stress how beneficial it would be to you and your students, to spend a few days, privatly or with a co-leader, with the best guide you can find.
Cheers, and best of luck!
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Jan 2, 2007, 6:47 AM)
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miavzero
Jan 3, 2007, 5:22 AM
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good advice from jim,
you could learn something, and your school could cover their ass!
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socalclimber
Jan 3, 2007, 2:21 PM
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Jesus, not this thread again. YOU DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO BE GUIDING! PERIOD! If the AMGA takes you into the Top Rope class, then it will confirm my opinions that they will take anyone. I've met a number people who took the course that were just as clueless coming out as they were going in.
Come back when you have 10+ years of multipitch trad under your belt. Then you'll be ready. I appreciate your exuberence, but you just ain't ready.
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ebonezercabbage
Jan 3, 2007, 3:22 PM
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Though i agree you really dont seem to have enough experience climbing to be really teaching the class, that doesn't mean you can't write the syllabus for a climbing class and be the professor for it.
My school offered rockclimbing as a class and i took it. How it worked was the actual professor had a small level of experience ( about the same as yours i believe) and she had us all go to the local gym. There we were INSTRUCTED by the owner of the gym ( 15+ years of multipitch climbing of various sorts ). He followed mostly what was on the syllabus but often went and did his own thing. It was kinda funny because he would openly make fun of her to us and she was a dumb blond that laughed right along with it.
Anyways, i wish i still had that syllabus so i could be more helpful. All i can say is, you can be the prof, so long as you are not the instructor.
p.s. What level of student are you trying to teach? Because taking noobs for 11 hours a day for 4 days is probably not goin to help anyone. I mean, when i first started, i was lucky if i could climb for more than 3 hours a day without being completely shot for a few days. Even if they aren"t completely noobs, still seems like a long time for even an average climber like myself to do it.
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thespider
Jan 3, 2007, 3:51 PM
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Self rescue is my vote!
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tisar
Jan 3, 2007, 3:53 PM
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ebonezercabbage wrote: [..] What level of student are you trying to teach? Because taking noobs for 11 hours a day for 4 days is probably not goin to help anyone. [..]
We do give weekend classes for total noobs and that's roughly 6 hours per day. The first day - with all the knots to learn, learning how to belay and stuff - they climb something like 3-5 (short and easy) routes. Second day it's maybe a route or two more.
Always take in count that it takes ages for noobs to tie in, set up the belay device etc. Plus you want them in parties at three, one climbing, one belaying and one backing up the belay. Takes time.
BTW, it doesn't take a Reinhold Messner to teach sports climbing, nor do you need any kind of trad experience. What you need is an understanding of what you teach and how to teach it. And where the limits of your teaching are.
We (which is a friend of mine who already had kind of a toprope-teaching certificate and me) gave two 'classes' to noobish friends and reevaluated every single thing taught together before we started to teach anybody else. The mutual control was more than helpful, I wouldn't go without that.
I'd strongly recommend to have a teaching partner anyway. You'll need someone to belay your leads, and a second pair of eyes to watch out for errors is priceless when your concentration fades for a moment.
- Daniel
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epoch
Moderator
Jan 3, 2007, 5:28 PM
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jimdavis wrote: ClimbingBebop wrote: Recently I received an offer to teach a sport climbing class at my college. I am currently the manager of all things climbing for our Outdoor Pursuits program, and have been climbing sport for two years strong. I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. The class is in preparation for a Alpine module which will take 15 students on a trip to Ecuador where they will make 4 summit attempts on mountains as high as 21,000. They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions! There's nothing wrong with asking for some suggestions, and perhaps you do know what your doing.... However, I'd strongly recommend spending a couple days with an expert guide. Have him play a student, try and explain your proposed lessons to him. I bet you'll learn a lot about your presentation to students, you'll learn what you do and don't truely understand...and you'll have a really good piece of mind knowing that an expert stands behind you, if they feel you're ready for such a role. I've caught a lot of flak on here for advocating AMGA certified guides...but in your case, I'd recommend consulting one even more so. Even if your totally up to snuff on your hard skills, your learn a lot about your presentation and participant management. Doing this with an AMGA guide gives you a little more of a legal backing, should something happen out there. They'll be able to give you some pointers to structering lessons, time management, little tips and analogys to help beginners along, etc. You'll also probably have much more confidence in your skills and your ability to lead a group. I spent a lot of time in an apprenticeship, teaching people how to climb. I watched a lot of people who had much more experience than I for a while, before I stepped out in front and lead the program. After I'd been doing it for 4 years, I then went and took my AMGA TRSM course with one of the most qualified guides that teaches the course, and I did it 1on1. Despite the fact that I was solid on the skills, and could have walked through the exam on the first day, I still learned more in those 4 days than I could have hoped for. I learned new perspectives, new ways to look at things, new options, some time saving tricks, ect. I also have a great paper trail to produce in court, should the need ever arise. If you've got the experience to take the course, try and get in on the AMGA's Rock Instructor course...or whatever they call it now. If your doing this for your school, you may even be able to get them to pick up the tab. If you want some help locating a good guide, PM me and I'll see if I know someone in your area. I really can't stress how beneficial it would be to you and your students, to spend a few days, privatly or with a co-leader, with the best guide you can find. Cheers, and best of luck! Jim
Re-read the above statement.
If it is not worth your time, then take jt512's advice to heart.
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enjoimx
Jan 3, 2007, 6:03 PM
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organized rock climbing makes me cringe.
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8flood8
Jan 3, 2007, 6:26 PM
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I don't know if you are ready or not.
i suggest that you buy a book (you could go real basic like.. the falcon "how to rock climb" book)
take some of those chapters and develop your syllabus from that.
my further suggestion is footwork exercises. Most new climbers don't know how to use their feet. Where are you going to be training these people? In a gym? Outdoors?
A good exercise is setting someone up on top rope and then making them climb, only with their feet. Hands are not allowed to do anything but press flat on the wall. Mantling is ok as long as they hand foot match, but other than that, NO HANDS!
good luck! (and don't kill anyone!)
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cracklover
Jan 3, 2007, 6:57 PM
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Good god, people, it's just sport climbing, give the guy a break! If the OP is smart and capable, and a talented teacher, he could easily teach people everything they need to know to be competent sport climbers in a single afternoon, much less four full days!
And two years is not that much time to run into all kinds of odd situations to give you a broad and deep experience, but it's plenty of time to get the fundamentals of sport climbing down... cold. He may not be able to give the best training tips, or talk about the difference between sport on sandstone, versus granite, versus limestone, but he could certainly know the basics inside and out.
Anyway, Jim's suggestion of going out with a guide seems like an excellent one.
Some of the other elements you should cover were mentioned in earlier posts.
But I'd say this: skip the self rescue stuff. Leave that for later courses. Focus on the fundamentals.
Two fundamentals not mentioned by earlier posters were:
1 - How to clean a route (don't drop the draws, know what signals to use when you get to the top, and what to do if it's a multipitch climb).
2 - How to clean an anchor and rappel.
2a - How to do the same but get lowered rather than rappel (clear communication here is key!)
As a general suggestion, I'd recommend that you pay a lot of attention to transitions. These are times that are often quite confusing to people, and when good, clear, communication is key.
GO
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wanderlustmd
Jan 3, 2007, 7:42 PM
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jt512 wrote: ClimbingBebop wrote: Recently I received an offer to teach a sport climbing class at my college. I am currently the manager of all things climbing for our Outdoor Pursuits program, and have been climbing sport for two years strong. I have a basic idea of how the class (which is 4 full days long, 8am-7pm) will go, but I'm looking for cool suggestions to include in the curriculum. The class is in preparation for a Alpine module which will take 15 students on a trip to Ecuador where they will make 4 summit attempts on mountains as high as 21,000. They have plenty of other classes, (like ice climbing, Rope Techniques, Rope Rescue, physical training, etc), but I will be teaching a sport/lead class and would love to hear some cool suggestions! Y'know, if you were actually qualified for this position, you wouldn't be making this post. Jay
mmmhmmm
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wanderlustmd
Jan 3, 2007, 7:56 PM
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Well, to play devil's advocate for a sec, Jim's right in that there is nothing wrong with asking for advice. It seems the OP was looking for input based on a teaching POV...ie structure of the class as well as what to include to make it more fun....(not sure what you can do there, since climbing isn't really boring  .......). That I can understand, since teaching anything can be pretty tough, and is equally tougher in something where everything must be explained clearly and thoroghly.... like climbing. I know from exp that you can be more than qualified in a subject and still suck at teaching.
It goes without saying that two years isn't enough to instruct climbing. It's all about exp, which it sounds like you don't really have. In terms of what cracklover said, he's probably right, but probably won't be a good enough explaination if someone gets hurt. Accidents happen to those with 30+ years of exp. And we have to assume that the people he will be guiding have no exp in climbing at all (which brings into question the whole Ecuador thing....THAT sounds skechy. I've been down there and, while it is a good "intro to high altitude" area since the atmosphere is a bit thicker, it's not for complete noobs, fer crissake)
So I'd say that, while it seems the OP was looking for more creative input for teaching versus asking something like "should I teach them how to belay?", it sounds like he/she probably isn't qualified overall. Is sport climbing the most complex thing in the world? No, but you sure can screw it up pretty easily if you don't know what you're doing.
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socalclimber
Jan 3, 2007, 8:27 PM
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dynosore wrote: In reply to: Come back when you have 10+ years of multipitch trad under your belt. Then you'll be ready. I appreciate your exuberence, but you just ain't ready. Clearly one needs 10+ years of multipitch trad to teach single pitch sport climbing techniques  The elitism of this site is a riot sometimes....
No shit for brains, what's a riot is the support of people who have no clue as to what they are doing. You obviously fit the bill.
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