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catsh16
Aug 22, 2006, 11:03 PM
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caught in the delima of deciding what brand/rope is best, need advice
Goal: 9.8-10.3mm 60m dry, use: multipitch trad lead 5.4-5.8, some sport, little toprope.
mostly low angle slab climbing and some alpine, main objective to have a rope with a good feel(flexible) and sheeth that dosn't fray/fuzz with use; furthermore a rope that I still want to lead with 2+ years from now
I started out thinking I wanted to go on the low end and get a 9.8mammut like my friends awsome rope(good feel, easy mannagement) but am now eying the mammut 10.2 supersafe($230). these are both really expensive, which makes me eye the bluewater and maxxim which from my experience are often very stiff and seem more prone to fraying. But- rope mannagment and safty seem to go hand in hand on long climbs thus making a quality rope worth the money.
Does anyone want to throw in their thoughs and recommend a beal, new england(glider 10.2= $160), edelweiss(Axis 10.3=$150) or other rope?? Otherwise I am basicly looking for someone to back me up on buying one of the most expensive ropes available(the mammut).
I don't really have a good understanding of impact force to have considered it as a factor thus far.
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coolklimber
Aug 23, 2006, 2:47 AM
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Go with the Edelwiss, they are good ropes.
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ja1484
Aug 23, 2006, 3:03 AM
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Go with the Edelweiss Axis.
Gear Express has it on sale for $120:
http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=5111
10.3mm, 60m, dry treated to boot. Gonna be hard to beat that without a pro-deal.
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holdplease2
Aug 23, 2006, 5:07 AM
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Well, if you want to use it on low-angle stuff like 5.4 to 5.8 is likely to be, it will drag on alot of rock. Best to get a rope with a nice sturdy sheath to handle the wear.
If you aren't sending your 5.18d projects, you may not be held back by the extra weight of the thicker rope/sheath that will give you the endurance you seem to want. A 10 mil or 10.2 may be right for you.
I've climbed for about three years on a Mammut supersafe and it shows no wear other than being dirty...no soft spots, wear spots on the core, or anything like that. This includes jugging it the walls many times. It has a *great* feel and comes with middle and end marks.
I just retired it b/c of a rope-stress situation that it experienced and promptly ordered another one.
Oh yeah...and during that three years I destroyed 2 other ropes just cragging. (A sterling 9.7 and a weird maxim)
The Mammut supersafe is worth the money, IMO. Plus, its like, supersafe. ;)
-Kate.
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funtom
Aug 23, 2006, 9:58 AM
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Hi
You could try TENDON master 9.7, its good enough and have SBS sheath which is more wear resistant.Smooth after 2years using on Sandstone here. Thanks SBS and thinner diameter is litle bit more fast, but Bd ATC-XP or Guide in your hands will be OK.(NO-im not a dealer :) )
Distributor in US is Metolius, but im not sure.
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catsh16
Aug 23, 2006, 7:57 PM
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two of my climbing partners have the edelweiss bluish(Axis 10.3??); and in my humble opinion it is a pretty lousy rope; they seem really stiff, and one is pretty fuzzy already(6months?)
another friend just got a Mammut galaxy 10mm, and it feels ok but is really twisted up(I think she must not have flaked it properly after opening it); will need to see this rope in a few months to form an opinion
I'm still pretty sold on throwing down the big bucks for the SuperSafe
I ended up buying a Beal Rando a few weeks ago for the glaciers around gannet peak WY(summited last week); worked out great and am happy with it. but obviously not suitable for leading on rock(and makes me feel silly for buying 2 ropes within a month... especially since I've been a freeloader the last few years and have never bought a rope of my own[I insead spent my money building a rack] )
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friedhead11
Aug 25, 2006, 4:11 AM
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Check out the BlueWater Eliminator. I'm looking at it right now. Mountain Gear has a sweet deal on it.
Specs:
Type: Single
Weight per foot: 24 grams
Diameter: 10.2 millimeters
UIAA falls: 8
Dry treated: Yeah man
Impact force: 8.0 kiloNewtons
Stretch: 8.5%
Checkit: [http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/BlueWater+Ropes/idesc/10%2E2mm+x+60m+Eliminator+%2D+Dry/Store/MG/item/640825/N/0]
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kletterfreak
Jan 3, 2007, 8:26 PM
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Well, I understand your desire to go low end.
I bought a Mammut Start, their lowest at the time, about two years ago and its already dead. So not all Mammut is all that.
And not all low ends are bad either. I had a PMI Cirque for 5 years. I pulled it out of retirement when my Mammut died. I showed it to a couple of Mountain qualified guides and they gave it the ok.
I am putting it out to pasture for good this new year and am also in the market for a new rope.
One thing I definiely want is a lighter rope. The PMI was 70 grams/meter and noticeable after dragging it up 8 pitches.
Also, at 10.6 mm, the PMI Cirque is really a beginners rope in the sense that it is slower to feed through the ATC. So I am thinking about a 10.2.
A guide recently told me that the dry ropes last longer because the sheath (and in some barnds the core) is coated and protects against grit. So I am definitely going for dry.
Another factor is the recent fad of using two ropes. I do see the point in places like the Alps or in NH where sharp edges are real threats. But two ropes in the Gunks seems to me a bit of overkill... if not good marketing.
That said, I climb in the Alps and have often been warned to climb only with two ropes (albeit half). Also, it ain't bad for that long rappel either to have two 60 meter ropes on hand.
One other point. If you are thinking about tying ropes together, you'll want ropes that come in two different colors. (That may seem real obvious to a lot out there)
In conclusion, I am getting something that is about 10.2 mm, dry, that is strong enough to use in the climbing hall, but light enough to use with another rope outside.
The Supersafe (recommended earlier) seems like a good rope. But its suprisingly not that much lighter than the PMI (69 grams/meter). Also it comes in only one color.
So if anyone has advice I'd like to hear it too.
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mephistopheles
Jan 3, 2007, 8:42 PM
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Personally, I would NOT recommend the Bluewater Eliminator. I have two (one was gifted) and they kink like a bitch. I can't wait to get rid of them. I love my Mammut though.
-El Diablo
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kletterfreak
Jan 3, 2007, 9:21 PM
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mephistopheles wrote: ...I love my Mammut though.] errr... which Mammut would that be? 
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mephistopheles
Jan 3, 2007, 9:58 PM
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sorry...it's a Galaxy 10mm
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csgambill
Jan 3, 2007, 10:10 PM
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Hell, just buy the cheapest rope you can find. I have a few and my favorite is still my Blue Water 10.5 whatever the hell it's called. Great hand, nice and manageable, it's not dry, but I could fix that if I wanted. Plus I got it for $120 on REI Outlet. I just can't justify dropping $200+ on a rope. Just seems stupid to me when a cheaper one will do the job just as well.
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toohigh
Jan 4, 2007, 3:52 AM
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I had to make a similar choice about a month ago and ended up with a sterling marathon pro 10.1
FRICKIN LOVE IT!
-john
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jamatt
Jan 4, 2007, 4:52 AM
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sterling, bluewater, mammutcokepepsieminemnikereebokshaqkobe....
whatever.
look, no one sells a rope that doesn't work. all this mish mash about feel and kinks and stretch is just self-deception.
i, along with everyone else who has ever bought a rope (since they stopped being made with plants, at least) made our choice because we liked the color. i went with the blue/yellow/black bluewater because it matched my lasportiva cliffs. to top it off, i went with the bi-color so i could have two patterns to match my mood. genius!
with some creativity, i'm sure you can conjure a stunning combo also.
love,
martha
ps. i'll put on my serious hat for a minute here. bright colors seem to attract yellowjackets. so depending on your take on yellowjackets...
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kletterfreak
Jan 4, 2007, 9:28 AM
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Sorry, I really respectfully disagree on those last three remarks.
I know what you mean when you say that "any rope will do" and its unjustified to drop 200+ on a rope.
And my take on the kink thing is it boils down to how you treat your rope, what kind of belay method you use, etc.
And perhaps even Sharp Edge Cert is a bit of a marketing ploy.
But to say that these things are "self deception" seems not true to life. Longevity is a definite factor.
If you have a rope that lasts twice as long, you just made your money back.
We all have heard the expression "fuzzies are our friends". But on a long climb I like to rely on a rope that I know has a history of being reliable. As opposed to one that looks like it just came out of a clothes dryer.
Cheers mates,
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redpoint73
Jan 4, 2007, 1:42 PM
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csgambill wrote: Hell, just buy the cheapest rope you can find. I have a few and my favorite is still my Blue Water 10.5 whatever the hell it's called. Great hand, nice and manageable, it's not dry, but I could fix that if I wanted.
Its the Accelerator, and its a good rope. My first 3 ropes were Accelerators. Good durability and nice hand. But a bit clunky going through a Grigri. A very good TR rope, and its available with dry treatment.
kletterfreak wrote: And perhaps even Sharp Edge Cert is a bit of a marketing ploy.
The sharp edge cert has been suspended by the UIAA, and ropes are no longer allowed to be marketed that way as of December 2005. They could not get consistent test results from different labs.
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sspssp
Jan 4, 2007, 7:31 PM
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kletterfreak wrote: Sorry, I really respectfully disagree on those last three remarks.... And my take on the kink thing is it boils down to how you treat your rope, what kind of belay method you use, etc.
Sorry, I really respectfully disagree.
I've been climbing 15 years, mostly with the same partner and same kind of belay method.
Some of my ropes got kinky [in a bad way] from the get go and some just wore out without ever kinking up.
Sure, one rope might have been rapped on differently than another. But given the dramatic differences I have had, on many different ropes, over many different years (with the same partner and the same rope habits)...ropes vary. I've not found any particular brand that has always been good (and I think rope weaving has changed over the years). But it most certainly does not just come down to how the rope is treated.
As far as the previous poster who says people buy ropes for the color (and I usually special order them without even knowing the color), the three things I look for in a rope are (in order of importance):
1. A rope that doesn't twist up.
2. A rope that doesn't twist up.
3. A rope that doesn't twist up.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Jan 4, 2007, 7:33 PM)
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kletterfreak
Jan 4, 2007, 8:23 PM
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SSPSSP,
actually I think we do agree on a fundamental point. rope issues are not merely "self deception".
but that leaves open the question...
what rope have you found works for you??? 
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valygrl
Jan 4, 2007, 8:36 PM
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+1 for Mammut. The Galaxy & Infinity are good for what you want. Go for the Galaxy if you are going to TR more, or whip alot on your projects. The infinity is an awesome trad rope - a tad bit slim for a grigri, though, so make sure your partner knows what she's doing. The Supersafe is overkill for freeclimbing, IMO - too heavy. I use the Supersafe for walls. I also have a pair of Mammut doubles, which are holding up very well.
The Black Diamond ones - Beal, I guess - suck for the twisties. I had a pair and I hated hated hated them.
I used to use Sterling, they were OK, but the Mammut last better and don't turn into quite as much of a cable.
The BD/Beal ones go limp and fuzzy and twisty. ick.
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sspssp
Jan 5, 2007, 8:21 PM
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kletterfreak wrote: SSPSSP, actually I think we do agree on a fundamental point. rope issues are not merely "self deception". but that leaves open the question...  what rope have you found works for you???
The best rope I had was the very first one I purchased (a 11m, don't know who made it). I was a clueless newbie (with horrible rope habbits) belaying/rapping with (get this) a figure 8. That rope lasted forever and never twisted up.
I think the fatter rope may have helped, but I think ropes had a different weave back then that made them less prone to twistiness.
The Beals are soft (and too stretchy) and do seem more prone to twistiness.
Recently I have climbed mostly on Sterlings just because my local gym carries them (and I get a slight discount) and it is an easy place to special order (I'm willing to pay extra for bi-color--which most internet sites don't stock)
They seem ok (not great and not bad). I purchased a sterling marathon (10.2mm?) several years ago for occasions when I aid/jug. It has seen sporadic use since then. It has no fuzz (despite a moderate amount of jugging) and is twist free enough that I will probably give the marathon another try.
However, my painful experience is that past performance from any given manufacturer doesn't seem to be any gaurantee of future performance of replacement products.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Jan 5, 2007, 8:26 PM)
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