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mainline
Sep 6, 2002, 5:37 PM
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Last summer I was at the Rodeo Wall climbing area in Jackson WY, when an accident occurred. A man who must have weighed about 180 lbs was lead climbing a sport route with his 100 lb girlfriend belaying. The man took a big lead fall yanking his belayer off the ground. The man hit an out crop of rock feet first which flipped him backwards, causing hime to hit his head on the rocks. He sustained head injuries among other things. He was not wearing a helmet. His belayer was pulled into a small overhang at the bottom of the route breaking her jaw. there are two major lessons to be learned here. First, always wear a helmet, even when sport climbing. Second, always tie in your belayer if he/she is lighter than you or there is danger of being pulled into the rocks or off a belay stance.
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eric
Sep 6, 2002, 6:48 PM
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Very good advice. This type of accident happens all the time -- especially belayers getting pulled, usually head first, into rocks. And you don't necessarily need the weight differential, especially if the climber is leading. It's happened to me -- an elbow prevented me from banging my head, but damn that hurt.
One of my regular partners is about 105. I always strap her down really well
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danl
Sep 6, 2002, 7:13 PM
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I disagree as well about tying your belayer in. Probably the reason the belayer got pulled into the wall was she was standing a ways back and got dragged in. Stand below your climber and learn how to handle a lead fall. I'm 140 and one of my partners is 215 I can catch his whips with out a major problem because stand against the cliff and when he is falling I control my body.
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timpanogos
Sep 6, 2002, 7:38 PM
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Just because a belayer is tied in, does not mean that you have to tie them off statically tight, only tied off enough to keep them from being bashed into a bad situation. I would assume that even a very dynamic belay (like a running run) is only dealing with a couple of meters of rope. So allowing for several feet of dynamic movement on a tethered belayer should protect them as well as allow for some dynamic movement.
And if you are the only two climbing in the area, ya best be able to make a good anchor to escape the belay if something bad did happen.
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hallm
Sep 6, 2002, 7:42 PM
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Always wear a helmet? Not me, pal. Helmets are for alpine routes or routes with a lot of loose rock.
To quote John Dill, rescue guru of Yosemite valley and probably the person with the most experience in climbing safety research in the world, "When to wear a helmet is a personal choice, but it is strongly recommended for: roped solo climbing, any route exposed to ice fall, and all approaches, descents, and climbing routes that are crowded and/or particularly loose." I don't think sport climbs quite fit into these categories.
If you want to wear a helmet everywhere, good for you. O, wait a minute, there goes that small yellow bus.
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elvislegs
Sep 6, 2002, 7:44 PM
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This is really a decision that must be made on a case by case basis. If there is no nasty sharp roof to be pulled into, or you don't think your belayer will fly then don't worry about it. But if you think there is danger to the belayer, tie them off.
Fleadawg, your point is not sound. Yes, tying off the belay adds stress to the system, but the system can take it. If my system, (which includes a "DYNAMIC" climbing rope,) can't handle the load with a static belay, then I guesse I should stop doing long trad routes all together, because six pitches up a route on a hanging belay you don't really have a hell of a lot of choice about the belayer being anchored. Adding a screamer is just over-kill and a waste of time. Set your pro soundly and trust the system to do what it was made for.
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hugepedro
Sep 6, 2002, 8:15 PM
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Regarding the use of a helmet on sport routes.
I agree that using a helmet is a personal choice (unless you happen to be belaying me). But, your choices do have some effect on your life expectancy. Heads do get crunched on sport routes (read Accidents in North American Mountaineering). Leaders do fall inverted as in the original post, and belayers do drop climbers (particulary new sport climbers fresh out of the gym). That some guru doesn't include sport climbing in his recommendation for helmet use is not reason enough for me not to use my brain bucket. I think there are 3 types of falls - oofs, crunches, and splats. A helmet can be the difference between a splat and a crunch or a crunch and an oof, and sport climbers are not immune to falls. Very short falls can crack bone, I've learned that painful lesson myself.
The only time I sometimes don't wear one is when top-roping, and then only if I'm reasonably sure that there's no loose rock, and no knuckleheads tromping around on top, and no chance of a pendulum, and I'm completely confident in my belayer (who is also tied into the other end of the rope - no chance of dropping me). Several times when I haven't worn it I wished I had when I bumped my head on an overhang.
Yes, it's your choice. Make a smart choice, Darwin.
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jt512
Sep 6, 2002, 8:15 PM
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Fleadawg, enough already! Write in frickin' English.
-Jay
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elvislegs
Sep 6, 2002, 8:59 PM
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I would reply if I could figure out what the hell you were saying.
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phillycheese
Sep 6, 2002, 10:25 PM
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so let me get this straight flea, meanness is 80's, jackson and b.c. skiing are 90's. since you are the hipster, please let me know what is in, in the year 2002, so i can "fit in"
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hallm
Sep 6, 2002, 10:28 PM
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Further to wearing helmets at all times.
Climbing helmets are intended to protect your head from falling objects, not to protect you from an inverted fall or other significant impact to the head from a fall (although they do add some small protection in that regard). In fact, if you fall for more than a foot or so inverted, you are going to suffer serious head and neck trauma regardless of what you are wearing on your melon. It is the blunt force that causes the damage, and climbing helmets to not have enough padding to provide significant protection in that regard (I am assuming you don't climb in a Bell motorcycle helmet or football helmet).
If you really fear inverted falls, get a chest harness. It will help you much more than wearing a helmet (as chest harnesses are designed to pull you into an upright position once the rope starts to arrest your fall).
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i.karen
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Sep 6, 2002, 11:01 PM
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I think most belayers get into trouble when they are not paying attention to the climber. You will be pulled up, it is a part of climbing but you shouldn't be thrown into the wall unless your not standing under their first bolt or their first piece of pro.
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hugepedro
Sep 8, 2002, 11:17 PM
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Hallm,
The UIAA tests helmets for vertical, side, front, and rear impact, as well as sharp object resistance. I don't know what their exact standards in those tests are (I think the vertical impact is something like 8kN maximum transmitted force), so I couln't say whether the protection is more than your unquantifiable statement of "some small protection in that regard". However, whether the impact is from some falling object, or you are the falling object, impact force is impact force, and whatever the UIAA standard is, I'd guess that a helmet does offer protection up to that impact force standard for the head in a fall. Certainly a helmet will not keep one safe from any fall, just like it won't keep you safe from every falling rock, especially if that rock is a 1000 pound block. But surely you aren't advocating that wearing a helmet can not make a difference in a fall, are you? There are plenty of accident accounts that would seem to refute that claim. Would you not agree that in some falls a helmet might make the difference between a cracked skull and a really bad headache or concussion?
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mountainmonkey
Sep 9, 2002, 4:21 PM
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Sorry to pick on somebody:
""...and climbing routes that are crowded and/or particularly loose." I don't think sport climbs quite fit into these categories. "
what bullshit - How many sport climbing areas are not crowded?
Having watched two people (one was bald so he had no protection what so ever) almost get creamed by softball to football sized rocks at one of our most popular climbing areas makes me wonder why sport climbers are so incredibly cocky not to wear a helmet. The rock is generally clean where the route are, but there will ALWAYS be loose rocks anywhere there are cliffs. Glue in the loose rocks - they will eventually loosen and fall out. Take any geology classes and you will realize that cliffs are neither permanent nor solid - even on a human timescale. Get real - helmets are light weight, fit nice (IF you properly adjust it), and don't 'get in the way' (oh waaaaa, the rope 'gets in the way' too).
Unconsious belayers and unconsious climbers suck.
casey
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tradguy
Sep 9, 2002, 5:41 PM
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Ah, what a great topic!
Helmets. Personal choice, kind of like condoms - if you don't like the consequences of NOT wearing one, then you better strap one on! When I was younger and dumber, I used to climb quite a bit without my helmet. Experience has taught me, though, to wear it more often. No "bad" stories to report, but I've taken ice and rocks to the head at various times which, without the lid, likely would have sent me to my grave. As climbing and general outdoor activity continues to grow, I see more and more people (whether they be climbers or tourons) hanging around the cliffs, and with more people comes a higher likeliness of falling rock, be it from a climber liebacking on a thin flake that blows, or some idiot kid throwing rocks down from the trail at the top. Either way, having a helmet can save the day.
That said, the "primary" design of the traditional climbing helmet is to protect against falling objects, with a secondary benefit of helping considerably if you fall and bang your head. See BD Half Dome or Petzl Ecrin Roc for example. Take note of the difference when compared with a bicylce helmet, who's design is specific to protect the head again an impact with a fixed solid object. The styrofoam of the inner part of the helmet absorbs the force - often shattering the foam, but saving the head (yes, I've destroyed bicycle helmets before when wrecking - but my head always comes out fine, I think )
Just within the last couple years, climbing gear manufacturers have started to incorparate design concepts of bicycle helmets to improve the safety of climbing helmets in situations where the climber falls and hits his/her head on fixed solid objects (rock, ice, tree). See helmets such as BD Hemisphere or Petzl Meteor for example.
In the end, it's still up to the individual, and no, sport routes are not safer than trad routes. I will occasionaly climb without a helmet still, but usually it's just because my belayer didn't have one, and I'd rather make sure my belayer doesn't get his/her head crushed, since they are in a more vulnerable position, and are ultimately responsible for not dropping me if I fall! After all, if my belayer is out, who's going to take me to the hospital??
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jt512
Sep 9, 2002, 6:38 PM
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There seems to be some discordance between what we are saying and what we are doing. I just looked thru the first three pages of photos, and in not a single one is a climber wearing a helmet. I wonder why that is?
-Jay
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tradguy
Sep 9, 2002, 6:48 PM
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Probably the same reason you often don't see people wearing helmets while riding Harley's on TV. There is a perception that they don't "look cool". Hey, if someone wants to get their head bashed in by a piece of falling rock, more power to them. I've got pictures of people climbing with helmets on (some pretty good shots too, I might add), but alas, they are on slide film, and I do not have a slide scanner. Sorry.
[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-09-09 11:49 ]
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overlord
Sep 9, 2002, 7:24 PM
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i dont wear a helmet because id dont have one. i ocassionaly borrow one if i know that the crag being visited is a little on the loose side. but i dont like what it does to the balance of my head. i probably could get used to it though, since i dont even notice my fullhelm while riding DH anymore it bothered me quite a lot at first though...
CLIMB ON
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marmot
Sep 9, 2002, 7:54 PM
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The only time I don't wear one climbing is when I'm at a gym, or when climging a man-made structure (altho, after the last time, I may change my mind at a certain local man-made rock).
Up until our trip to Mazama over labor day, never wore one belaying. After all the rock fall there, and having some holds pull off in my hand, I think I'll have my lid on more often when belaying outside.
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elvelasco
Sep 16, 2002, 1:18 PM
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I have never been climbing outdoors without a helmet. Everyone I climb with wears a helmet. I understand it's a personal choice, but I see no need for anybody to take an unnecessary risk that could be so easily reduced. Here's my story:
Long before I started climbing, I did a lot of long distance road cycling. When I first started cycling, I didn't wear a helmet. My story is based on what I remember, which isn't much due to my concussion, and what the police pieced together.
I was on a training ride, on a descent, so I was probably tucked, doing 30 or 35 mph. A car was coming from the opposite direction. The driver "didn't see me" and made a left turn in front of me, causing me to hit the car on the right rear fender and fly over the trunk. Nobody knows exactly how I hit the ground, but they guess that the back of my head hit the curb sometime during the fall.
The first thing I remember is being in the ambulance, strapped to a spineboard, talking to the paramedic. The 10 minute trip to the hospital seemed to me like the blink of an eye. After a boatload of X-rays and a CT scan, they took me off the spineboard, and allowed me to move around. That's when things got scary.
All of a sudden, I lost my ability to retrieve words from my vocabulary. I couldn't tell you that the thing on the end of my arm is called a hand. Heck, I couldn't even tell you what an arm was. After about half an hour of this, I regained my ability to recall words, but my syntax was completely off--I could use words, but I was unable to use them in the proper order or with proper grammar. This, too, lasted about half an hour. You could only imagine how scary this was for me, as well as my family who came to the hospital.
When all was said and done, I had spent six hours in the emergency room, had all of the layers of muscle and linings between my skin and my skull stitched back together, and had the skin stapled back together. I had a quarter of my head shaved, and 13 staples holding together what would become a 9 cm long scar. I missed three days of work. I can't say for sure, but had I been wearing a helmet, things might have been better.
All things considered, I got pretty lucky. I could very well be a 30-year old drooling vegetable right now. I could be dead right now. Something to keep in mind here is that the accident occurred in a Chicago suburb which had skilled, well-equipped paramedics within 5 minutes, and a level 2 trauma center within 10 minutes, of the accident. My story might have ended differently if it happened at a crag out in the middle of nowhere. Compound this with the fact that most people I see climbing don't have a clue when it comes to rescue techniques and first aid. Some people don't even carry a basic first aid kit. If you went around your crag asking people how to safely perform a belay escape, how many could do it?
I have two reasons for telling this story.
1) Trying to figure out what a helmet can and can't do is irrelevant. Your risk of injury is smaller with your brain bucket on your head.
2) If your are about pushing limits, like all climbers are, push the limits of your abilities, not the limits of safety. Climb harder routes, climb longer routes. In most cases, there is a line, albeit sometimes a fuzzy line, that separates pushing the limits of technical difficulty and pushing the limits of safety.
Protect your brains, people. Luck will only fail you once in your life.
[ This Message was edited by: elvelasco on 2002-09-16 06:27 ]
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curt
Sep 23, 2002, 9:46 PM
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In my experience, Hallum (with post on the previous page) has got it the most right. wearing a helmet during a fall is probably better than not wearing one, but that is not what climbing helmets are designed to protect you from. They are intended to protect you from (small) falling objects--and do a pretty good job of that.
The next point, however, is where Hallum really hits the nail on the head. He is absolutely correct in advising chest harnesses to protect against head injuries resulting from a climbing fall. This will prevent more head injuries than universal adoption of helmets ever would. I find it interesting that there is so much discussion of helmets and so little dedicated to the real cause of many climbing related head injuries.
The tie-in point of a normal seat harness (being near the waist) is well below the center of gravity of most if not all climbers. An out of control fall will often result in the climber being inverted and hitting something in that head-down position. If you read the instructions that come along with many seat harnesses carefully you can see that wearing such a harness without a chest harness is, in fact, not recommended. Yet most climbers choose to ignore this warning.
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froggy
Sep 23, 2002, 10:00 PM
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I always wear my helmet when leading and belaying a leader. I usually even wear one while TRing. It is a great habit to get into and I wish more of my friends wore them.. But, they will learn and a few of them already have...
As for one of my friends ... I guess it knocked one of their brains loose because they still don't wear one even after having quite a concussion from a fall,.. Duh!
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tradaddict
Oct 10, 2002, 4:06 AM
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I caught my first lead fall (trad) and I believe that the only reason my partner and I are still alive is because I was tied in and wearing a helmut. My partner got off route and fell, pulling 2 pieces of gear and ultimately falling on a rusty peton, the only piece of gear between him and the all-gear anchor. I was belaying on a small ledge, wedged in between an old growth cedar tree and the rock. When my partner fell and I knew he would end up below me (we were about 100 feet up) I managed to take about 2 feet of rope while he was in mid-air and brace myself for the impact. I cracked my head off the rock and was yanked upwards by the force of the fall, hitting my head on slight overhang. It hurt, we were both bruised and battered, and I was definitely more freaked out then he, but I wasn't knocked out, and was therefore able to catch my partner when he fell 15 feet below me.
Deirdre
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apollodorus
Oct 10, 2002, 4:37 AM
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The belayer NEEDS to be tied down, regardless of weight. And the belayer needs to be able to use an ascender or prusik to tie off the rope after a fall and get free of the belay. How else is the belayer supposed to help if he/she can't lower the climber?
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machiavellian
Oct 10, 2002, 5:11 AM
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If something can fall on your head, wear a helmet. If a leader fall can pull you off balance, tie in. I started belaying when I was seven and weighed in at a whopping 60lbs. I was belaying my 170lbs father. Many times my tie in was called upon to keep me out of the first clip and my Dad off the ground.
[ This Message was edited by: machiavellian on 2002-10-09 22:19 ]
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