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bcm3u
Feb 15, 2007, 6:07 PM
Post #26 of 69
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Registered: Dec 19, 2004
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Davey wrote: moose_droppings wrote: Freaking fashion police..........get a life! Dress to be comfortable and warm and to hell what anyone thinks. Brand names....pffft points wrote: Then you hit the point where it's more profitable to cater slightly to these people and you company ends up like TNF whose quality has really dropped off, fit has gone out the window (at least for the tall skinny climbers) and caters more to fashion than function. I think the point is that even if you whear it just to be cool. Fine with me. But the more popular it is with people that don't care about the quality the more likely it is to have the quality go down. Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing? Hell no. they started out making high end outdoor work wear now look at them, same with Eddie Bauer now there stuff sucks.
I completely agree with the thesis of your post, but just for clarification - let's be honest, A&F has never made anything high end... ever. :-)
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goodman
Feb 15, 2007, 6:10 PM
Post #27 of 69
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Registered: Mar 16, 2003
Posts: 31
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How do you think the mainstream public feels when they see those outdoorzy types wearing Levis...or driving the same car. We should petition the President of the US to stop this..I’ll bet he would even go to war over it. OH s**t, I just saw this guy wearing an MHW and there is just no way in hell he is cool enough to have that thing on - kill himmmmm
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unrooted
Feb 15, 2007, 6:11 PM
Post #28 of 69
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Registered: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 840
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bizarrodrinker wrote: Probably to Liz Claireborn or whoever the hell bought the Prana label.
It kind of sucks that prana is now owned by liz, but have you looked at prana lately, it may no longer be made in the usa, but the quality appears better than before, one example is the zion stretch pants, I love the fit and fabric, but the stitching on both pair I own came undone on the ass, but the newer ones look way more bomber.
But in the end I would rather support companies like patagonia that at least try to minimize their footprint though. Large companies care about one thing, money, which means if they pick up a brand like MH, they will have to start changing sizes to fit the average american.
The thing about the wild things jacket is bizzare, but if companies could stay in business without moving manufacturing overseas, and lowering quality because whack ass gangstas start buying their clothes I will stand behind that. So if your a small time clothing company that wants to make great outdoor wear, using environmentally sound manufacturing practices, but advertise in rap magazines I am for that. (maybe they could up the price so hipsters will want to buy it, and have special deals if you can prove you actually climb???).
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hosh
Feb 15, 2007, 6:13 PM
Post #29 of 69
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Registered: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 1662
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Man, I live in Juneau and The weather dictates that Everyone wears this gear. I'm talking about lawyers and such that never go outside except to get into their fancy cars to drive home and they've got ArcTeryx hard shells. It's just par for the course in this town... So what?
hosh.
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euroford
Feb 15, 2007, 8:07 PM
Post #30 of 69
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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do you poeple realy care if its mainstreme or not? common whatever. just go send for crying out loud, where whatever works for you.
i bought my favorite backpack at the north face store on friggin michigan avenue in downtown chicago. obviously i'm not very core considering that i bought a mainstreme northface product in an area of town obviously geared towards tourists.
you know who the posers are? the people who actually give a shit about where they buy there stuff.
and can you believe it, at that same store, i bought my wife (whos not a climber) a jacket obviously not made for climbing. she loves it. mission accomplished.
and i dig my MH jacket as well... if i need another one, and they make a nice one, and i get a good deal on it, i'll buy it. i get a discount at macy's....
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rob729
Feb 15, 2007, 8:19 PM
Post #31 of 69
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Registered: Apr 15, 2006
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fitzontherocks wrote: That's sad. I'm a big MH fan. I was a North Face fan until Chevy began offering a North Face version of their Avalanche truck, that behemoth, gas eatin' idiotmobile. Of course, I had to buy my 14 year old daughter a TNF fleece because all her friends have 'em. I tried, but no other fleece would do for Princess. Face it, folks. We're cool and everybody wants to be just like us.
he is right...they do want to be like us
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fitzontherocks
Feb 15, 2007, 8:28 PM
Post #32 of 69
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Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 864
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W E A R. Not where. Mainstream. Not manestreem.
We're cool, we just can't spell sh*t.
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redpoint73
Feb 15, 2007, 8:36 PM
Post #33 of 69
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Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
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It seemed that Patagonia made the move of trying to broaden their customer base a few years back. I remember seeing Patagonia stuff in lots of "regular" sporting goods stores. Then it seems that the company decided this was a bad move, and now I only see there stuff at specialty climbing and high-end ski shops. I don't know how conscious of a decision this was. Has anyone else observed this, or have any "inside" info?
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dingus
Feb 15, 2007, 8:38 PM
Post #34 of 69
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
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jrox wrote: sheesh.. you think? TNF quality went down when Vanity Fair bought them, but people are still addicted to those denali jackets.
TNF has been shitty for more than 2 decades.
DMT
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dingus
Feb 15, 2007, 8:49 PM
Post #36 of 69
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I went skiing the other day and looked down.
The horror... the horror.
No my pants weren't unzipped. That wouldn't be apparent, haha.
My shell pants, jacket. long undies, gloves, hat - all REI. Every fucking one of them, how EMBARRASSING.
For me the equation is ordered like this: price, function, form, durability, price.
Label doesn't even factor in. I truly do not care who's label I sport. I will never buy a top of the line outdoor garmet for full retail anywhere, any time for any reason.
Every piece of REI gear I own was purchased when on sale too. I have a North Face down jacket I got at their outlet in Berzerkly for $75 bucks. I like it just fine, but have a poly-whatever Moonstone I picked up from Sierra Outlet (the Cheap Bastard's 2nd best friend) for $80.
I actually hold labels against certain mfgs - I automatically assume Raqtagonia is too expensive unless marked 60-80% off in a 2nds bin. Ditto arcteryx and other so called specialty clothing mfgs. My kids sport Columbia, you've have to be a rich yuppie label poser to outfit your kids with name brand bullshit.
DMT
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qwert
Feb 15, 2007, 9:07 PM
Post #37 of 69
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Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 2394
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is MH quality going down?
well, i have only three jackets to compare, so its not exactly scientific, but i will try anyways:
i have an old exposure II parka (a goretex one, from before they switched to their own mebrane). it must be around lets say 4 to 7 yers old (i dont know. i only know it was my everyday jacket for a long time), then i have one of those "first" ultralight jackets (dont know the name, but its around 300g and must be around 3 to 4 yers old) and finally i have that freakin expensive500€ tenacity light jacket, wich i bought last year.
the exposure II is still my favorite. some seams are starting to show some wear, and it starts to get a bit fuzzy at some edges, but apart from that,no complaints. i absolutely love that jacket, its like shiny knights armor, just not shiny anymore, but still heavy enough.
well its a parka, so i guess it has to be a bit oversized, and since it also was marketed as gear for ski patrols this is ok. and i can fit the contents of a small backpack in its pockets.
the light one is not so sturdy, but this was obvious from the beginning, since it was among the lightest jackets available. also it wasnt expensive, so thats ok. it does what it has to do. live in the pack most of the time and only come out for a short shower.
but its to big for me. im quite skinny, and not very muskular, so im used to my clothes having some slack, but for performance clothing this is not good.
the tenacyti jacket seems to be very sturdy (cant really judge that, i only have it since one year), so also no issues with the quality, but its also to big, apart from the waist. there it is to short, it always raises when im raising my arms. and the pockets arent worth shit. you cant access them, since they are to far on the sides, so their openings interfer with the backpack shoulder straps. and if i finally get something in, it falls in a big black hole until it comes to a stop below the harness , so the only pocket that i can use is the small one on the front. well, my ipod fits nice there, so mission accomplished.
definitely not worth the 500€. luckily i got it for 150€.
so the built quality is still good, but i have to start to get fat.
but wich brands can you still buy? MH, obviously going yuppy. Patagonia? aint that patagucci? arteryx? thei are also pretty in i have heard. what else??
i will buy what i can get for a good price, and what has a good quality. mostly i dont care about image, so thats not to big of a problem, and as long as our gangsters still wear fubu and hillfucker and wtf them homies are called, i will remain individuall enough with my stuff.
qwert
(and im also to cool to spell)
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slowhand
Feb 15, 2007, 9:16 PM
Post #38 of 69
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Registered: May 22, 2006
Posts: 105
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I'd wear the f'n gap if its quality stuff and comforable to climb in. More power to them if they sell out and make some cash.
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unreleasedenergy
Feb 15, 2007, 9:18 PM
Post #39 of 69
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Registered: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 77
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I saved for a long time to be able to afford my gear for the mountains as a college student. I bought the best stuff I could afford. most of it was MHW. I don't regret saveing the money and buying their gear, even if the same gear may appear on some yuppie. The gear I bought has kept me alive in conditions where cheaper stuff would likely have failed and I'm somewhat attached to it. That gear represents a huge investment to me, so I never wear any of it in the city or to school or work, no matter how crappy it is outside. I'll wear my beat up carhart jacket and hoodie to save the wear and tear on those pieces.
Do most of you guys wear your technical pieces in the city too?
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euroford
Feb 15, 2007, 9:26 PM
Post #40 of 69
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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some REI stuff just kicks ass. i really love my shoeller pants, they were cheap, warm and burly. pretty much the only item to survive the diamond last year without serious scars, and the pants would have taken the worst.
columbia makes some good stuff. having grown up in michigan, we always considered them the 'local brand'.
but i'll admit, sometimes i'm more than happy to pay a premium when i find something that i think is totaly bitchin. i recently got a Patagonia DAS parka and i already consider it money well spent.
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crotch
Feb 15, 2007, 9:38 PM
Post #41 of 69
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Registered: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: 1277
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My buddy and I were on Foraker last summer. I was equipped in 2006 MH gear, and my buddy had the same stuff, but made in 2002. A wicked storm came in, pinned us down at 20,000 feet for 17 days in an ice cave without a stove. He survived to tell the tale, but I didn't make it back home.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Feb 15, 2007, 9:47 PM
Post #42 of 69
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
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euroford wrote: do you poeple realy care if its mainstreme or not? common whatever. just go send for crying out loud, where whatever works for you...
NO. GAP is as mainstream as it gets, and I have no problem wearing a Gap T-shirt. No more problem than I have wearing a no-name t-shirt from Target. If it fits, and the price is right, then I buy it.
The only thing about "going mainstream" for companies that at some point used to be targeting a specific activity/niche is that a lot of times quality suffers when they go mainstream. And yet they still think that they could charge premium for the name and the "image". And THAT I do care about.
And I admit that the "lifestyle" clothing idea makes me laugh. Want a bet on how many women wearing Keen water sandals last summer in Cleveland ever got their sandals wet? How many fancy hiking boots ever see the sight of trails? And how many people wearing ski jackets around town ever gone skiing? Forget the brand names, I'm talking function...
There is a trend right now for "activewear" clothing being cool, and I think MH, just like TNF, Columbia, and the rest of them is doing what they can to capitalize on that trend. But I still find the trend itself ridiculous.
For the record, I have never owned anything from TNF, MH, patagonia, prAna, etc. etc. I have never bought them just b/c they were "cool"-- but I've seen people making the decision to buy them for that reason only.
Will I at some point own them? Quite possible, if the price is right and the item fits it's intended function well. And that would not depend on whether half of the population of the city of Cleveland is sporting TNF Denali Fleece jackets (as they do now), or if they moved on to Arc'teryx and MH and whether the items are for sale at Dicks, REI or MACY's. Though I have to admit that I've never shopped for clothing at REI or Macy's and probably won't start anytime soon...
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shakylegs
Feb 15, 2007, 9:48 PM
Post #43 of 69
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Registered: Aug 20, 2001
Posts: 4774
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crotch wrote: My buddy and I were on Foraker last summer. I was equipped in 2006 MH gear, and my buddy had the same stuff, but made in 2002. A wicked storm came in, pinned us down at 20,000 feet for 17 days in an ice cave without a stove. He survived to tell the tale, but I didn't make it back home.
Ya poor bastard. I guess your buddy left your body on the mountain, did he? After eating parts of you to survive, of course.
I knew MH couldn't be trusted.
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kjohnnytarr
Feb 15, 2007, 9:56 PM
Post #44 of 69
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Registered: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: 22
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Damn...hippest, saddest, lamest thread on RC.com ever.
If you care that much about not having all the damn urbanites wearing "your" jacket, make one yourself or start your own damn company!
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moose_droppings
Feb 15, 2007, 10:24 PM
Post #45 of 69
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
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In reply to: Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing?
Hell yes I would if it was comfortable and warm and the price was right.
I don't have to please nobody but myself.
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Davey
Feb 15, 2007, 11:54 PM
Post #46 of 69
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Registered: Feb 2, 2007
Posts: 294
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moose_droppings wrote: In reply to: Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing? Hell yes I would if it was comfortable and warm and the price was right. I don't have to please nobody but myself.
Personally when I shop for a jacket I look for quality, durability and functionality. If you can find what works for you at Abercrombie and Fitch then more power to you.
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crotch
Feb 16, 2007, 12:16 AM
Post #47 of 69
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Registered: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: 1277
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climbsomething
Feb 16, 2007, 1:13 AM
Post #49 of 69
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Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
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kman wrote: There seems to be 3 streams of thought on this. Those that feel that because they are climbers they are better than those who are not, and how dare outsiders wear "climber" brands.
In reply to: Those that think they are truly hardcore because they do not spend top dollar on performance wear like all of the yuppies.
In reply to: And 3rd, those that really don't give a shit.
*brushes dog hair off sweet Columbia jacket draped on back of her corporate office chair*
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