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flowin
Feb 3, 2007, 11:47 PM
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I was reading about its benefits, anyone take it? have any feedback?
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muttblood
Feb 15, 2007, 6:20 PM
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i've yet to try it, but a couple of my colleagues take it. they absolutely love it. one of our faculty members (who has written several textbooks on sports nutrition) thinks that it could be useful for climbing. he does say that it takes about a month before you see any real benefits. i'm thinking of trying it....i just have to get off of my butt and get some :-P
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flowin
Feb 15, 2007, 6:26 PM
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ok, did they say anything about side effects? I have some on order, so once i test it out, i will post my findings. Thanks for replying.
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thomasribiere
Feb 15, 2007, 8:59 PM
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I was wondering why you want to take some, so I had to give a fast look to my molecular physiology lessons and on the web as well...
Apparently, pyruvate being either transformed into alanine or into lactate (depending on the metabolic pathway), I suppose that the aim of taking alanine is to keep some available "energy" (alanine belonging to the neoglucogenesis pathway) to feed your body.
But what I'm not sure of, is the fact that your body will still create some lactate during the power-endurance efforts, through the lactic anaerobic pathway. And if your muscles still produce lactates, whatever is the remaining source of energy in your body, your muscles will be saturated by lactic acidosis and won't be able to contract anymore. And you'll be screwed...
So I'm not sure it will be really helpful (if my considerations are correct - which must be reviewed and approved by other people). You should train and use your muscles to bear acidosis : that should be enough.
As the side effects, I don't really know. I suppose that a few people might be intolerant to it, but you should probably know about it already (this kind of disease generally expresses in the youth).
Well, this was some random thought. Wait for more input...
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miavzero
Feb 15, 2007, 9:24 PM
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Yes, like most supplements, it is unecessary for a healthy person to use.
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lena_chita
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Feb 15, 2007, 9:59 PM
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styleboy wrote: miavzero wrote: Yes, like most supplements, it is unecessary for a healthy person to use. It's an amino acid... 
But supplements are all the rage! And it has a cool name! beta-alanine, you know, with a name like that it HAS to be beneficial for climbing! Maybe it makes you more responsive to beta? Maybe you can remember the beta better when you are at the crux? Or maybe it just makes you less likely to curse when you are stuck and someone is yelling beta at you? Think of the possibilities!
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muttblood
Feb 15, 2007, 10:04 PM
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well, the beta-alanine isn't meant to give energy per se. it's meant to be used as a hydrogen buffer. The creation of lactate is not what causes the burning sensation. It's the combining of lactate and hydrogen ions that causes the burning and fatigue. Soooo if you can have a way to remove hydrogen ions more efficiently...
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muttblood
Feb 15, 2007, 10:09 PM
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well, honestly, i'm not sure about side effects off of the top of my head....i can certainly ask. whatever side effects that did occur weren't enough to make them not want to take it.
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clee03m
Feb 15, 2007, 10:33 PM
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Also, supplements (amino acids included) are not regulated by the FDA or any governmental agency, so as far as you know you could be swallowing sugar tablets. That's OK, though. Placebo effects are amazing, I hear. It may take a month to notice any effects of placebo, though.
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miavzero
Feb 15, 2007, 10:56 PM
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styleboy wrote: miavzero wrote: Yes, like most supplements, it is unecessary for a healthy person to use. It's an amino acid...
As is phenylalinine, but that does not justify drinking 20 diet sodas a day with the idea that it will improve your climbing. Amino acid supplementation is unecessary for most healthy people who have a balanced diet.
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styleboy
Feb 15, 2007, 11:04 PM
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Next you'll come back and tell me creatine has very severe side effects and is just like a steroid!
(This post was edited by styleboy on Feb 15, 2007, 11:05 PM)
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miavzero
Feb 15, 2007, 11:12 PM
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styleboy wrote: Next you'll come back and tell me creatine has very severe side effects and is just like a steroid!
My portfolio advisor P.T. Barnum has just reviewed market trends and encouraged me to invest in the supplement industry.
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aerili
Feb 21, 2007, 11:17 PM
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miavzero is basically right. With the exception of supplementing with certain amino acids like branched chain, buying and taking individual amino acids is typically like flushing money down the toilet.
Omigod, how do I get myself involved in these fights....
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phang_nga
Apr 24, 2007, 10:12 AM
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miavzero wrote: Yes, like most supplements, it is unecessary for a healthy person to use.
I think that people who are considering suppliments are looking to be a bit more than merely healthy.
There are different grades, forms and qualities of suppliments. There are bio-availability issues and yes, you can't take just one suppliment without taking a host of others to work in synery with that suppliment.
I used to race bicycles and I was deep into mega-vitamin therapy. Our team physician took regular readings via hair analysis, blood and urine tests to make sure that the supplimental nutrients were getting to where they were most needed and in the proper amounts and combinations.
"Balanced diet!" The FDA allows stuff that shouldn't even be labelled food to be called health food. Processed food is so far away from raw natural food that it's a wonder most of us aren't more sickly than we are.
If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... unless you want to merely be 'healthy'... Unless you've got scientific evidence against supplimentation, you are merely stating an opinion. Yes, eating ramdom vitamins can be a waste of time and $, but doing it right is a whole different story. Why do the many top athletes take suppliments?
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phang_nga
Apr 24, 2007, 2:53 PM
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microbarn wrote: phang_nga wrote: Why do the many top athletes take suppliments? because the top atheletes generally don't get a college education....If they did go to college, they were put on the easy track. Top atheletes just listen to what everyone else says to do. They follow trends as much or more then everyone else.
Wow dude, awesome comeback... You musta had sum a that higher learnin' 
So, with your (weak IMHO) position in mind, OK, then their coaches (who are most likely educated) put them on their diets and suppliments.
If you want top performance you eat for nutritional value. The same things (vitamins and minerals) that you get in food can be reproduced or extracted (even better) and taken in pill form. Now, if you're an athlete and you need larger doses of certain vitamins or minerals, you can eat an enormous amount of food to get what your body needs or you can take suppliments. The best way is to eat as much natural (raw preferably) food as possible in moderate amounts and take suppliments to boost your performance. If you burn calories like crazy-- such as a cyclist-- then you can eat massive piles of food without gaining weight. If you're a rock climber, um, I don't think you want to gain a lot of weight... right? You want to be strong and you want endurance... right? The highly modified food that most people eat simply does not have most of the original vitamin content... it has been processed out. Take pills dude and get super healthy.
And no, I don't listen to movie stars when it comes to politics. Movie stars ain't nuthin' but a bunch of people with split personalities... if they were themselves, no one would give them $$ 
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reno
Apr 24, 2007, 3:14 PM
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phang_nga wrote: If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals...
Well, that's incorrect.
In reply to: Unless you've got scientific evidence against supplimentation, you are merely stating an opinion.
Uh..... you see the problem with this?
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jt512
Apr 24, 2007, 3:15 PM
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phang_nga wrote: miavzero wrote: Yes, like most supplements, it is unecessary for a healthy person to use. A 'healthy' person...hmmm, can you define that? Do you mean someone who isn't obviously sick? Do you mean someone whose vital signs are acceptable? I think that people who are considering suppliments are looking to be a bit more than merely healthy. There are different grades, forms and qualities of suppliments. There are bio-availability issues and yes, you can't take just one suppliment without taking a host of others to work in synery with that suppliment. I used to race bicycles and I was deep into mega-vitamin therapy. Our team physician took regular readings via hair analysis, blood and urine tests to make sure that the supplimental nutrients were getting to where they were most needed and in the proper amounts and combinations. "Balanced diet!" The FDA allows stuff that shouldn't even be labelled food to be called health food. Processed food is so far away from raw natural food that it's a wonder most of us aren't more sickly than we are. If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... unless you want to merely be 'healthy'... Unless you've got scientific evidence against supplimentation, you are merely stating an opinion. Yes, eating ramdom vitamins can be a waste of time and $, but doing it right is a whole different story. Why do the many top athletes take suppliments?
Congratulations on writing a full six paragraphs in support of supplements, without stating a single scientifically valid fact in their favor; and then, completely unaware of the irony, stating that unless someone has scientific evidence against supplements that they are merely stating their opinion.
Why do so many athletes take supplements, you ask. Based on your post, I would guess because of their gullibility.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 24, 2007, 3:26 PM)
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jt512
Apr 24, 2007, 3:29 PM
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reno wrote: phang_nga wrote: If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... Well, that's incorrect.
Actually, that is correct. It was everything else he posted that was incorrect.
Jay
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reno
Apr 24, 2007, 4:43 PM
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jt512 wrote: reno wrote: phang_nga wrote: If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... Well, that's incorrect. Actually, that is correct. It was everything else he posted that was incorrect.
My reading of his post is that he suggests one need take supplemental vitamins and minerals.... in pill form, for example. My position is that one can get all the needed vitamins and minerals from a proper diet.
Maybe I'm misreading his post.
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jt512
Apr 24, 2007, 5:25 PM
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reno wrote: jt512 wrote: reno wrote: phang_nga wrote: If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... Well, that's incorrect. Actually, that is correct. It was everything else he posted that was incorrect. My reading of his post is that he suggests one need take supplemental vitamins and minerals.... in pill form, for example. My position is that one can get all the needed vitamins and minerals from a proper diet. Maybe I'm misreading his post.
Yeah, that is what he is saying. I didn't think that was what you were saying, though.
Jay
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reno
Apr 24, 2007, 5:43 PM
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jt512 wrote: reno wrote: jt512 wrote: reno wrote: phang_nga wrote: If you work out hard, you need more vitamins and minerals... Well, that's incorrect. Actually, that is correct. It was everything else he posted that was incorrect. My reading of his post is that he suggests one need take supplemental vitamins and minerals.... in pill form, for example. My position is that one can get all the needed vitamins and minerals from a proper diet. Maybe I'm misreading his post. Yeah, that is what he is saying. I didn't think that was what you were saying, though.
OK, seems more an issue of poor communication than anything else. Apologies for any confusion.
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phang_nga
Apr 25, 2007, 1:41 AM
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Yawn, there are countless books on the benefits of nutritional suppliments and on how little nutritional value our food has these days.
If you workout hard, you generate free radicals / antioxidants. Free radicals are dangerous and 'could' lead to cancer. The vitamins that help combat free radicals are C, E. Take a look at http://www.healthchecksystems.com/antioxid.htm if you want to read about this or if you've never heard of this.
The Colgan Institute has helped many Olympic athletes through supplimentation. Check out http://www.colganinstitute.com/
Here is a scientist who did cell-level research on vitamins. He found that many vitamins didn't help keep cells alive (so some of you are right in saying that vitamins are a waste of time and money), but he found that if you use the same vitamins
http://www.usana.com/dotCom/index.jsp
Come on guys, there is a lot of info out there to support taking suppliments. If you don't "believe" in the science, then fine... don't take them. If you'd like to learn more, I can suggest books. The fact is that you can eat a so-called healthy diet and stay fairly healthy, but if you want optimum health, supplimentation is a very good way to go.
I never realized that there were so many people out there that were so set against vitamins... it's a bit of a shock 
Peace
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iamthewallress
Apr 25, 2007, 1:54 AM
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phang_nga wrote: Yawn, there are countless books on the benefits of nutritional suppliments and on how little nutritional value our food has these days.
Well...if there are books. I mean, that's almost as legit as reading it on the internet.
Reputable sources typically grant degrees and don't offer pricey seminars to teach you about their 'scientific' findings.
I could attach my PhD to a missive about how eating lawn grass will make you pull down like Chris Sharma. If I was lucky, I might be able to get some pro to agree with me. If it would sell, someone would publish it.
I would love to know how your physician tested your hair to make sure your supplements got where they were supposed to go.
All of that testing (which seems over the top to me for nutritional monitoring) kinda makes me wonder if he was looking to make sure stuff didn't show up in your samples. Of course, it that were the case, whatever he was giving you probably did make you feel like a champ.
(This post was edited by iamthewallress on Apr 25, 2007, 1:56 AM)
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