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joeforte
Feb 20, 2007, 11:25 PM
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I was wondering how other ppl. go about anchoring to a tree far from the edge of the top of a trad climb. I walk to the tree, double sling it, double biner it, clip in rope with a fig 8 with enough slack to walk back to lip on my side of the 8, walk back to lip, tie fig8 on the rope and belay off that.
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grampacharlie
Feb 20, 2007, 11:31 PM
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Not bad. You could also belay off a munter if you were not worried about tying yourself is, say at the top of a climb. You could also use a bowline on a bite to tie to the tree assuming you had enough rope left, which would exlude the need for slings.
that is of course if you're not worried about the tree failing as an anchor point. I mean, we'd hate to not be redundant on everything...
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joeforte
Feb 20, 2007, 11:35 PM
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I avoid slinging the tree to avoid getting sap on my rope. Most of the trees living on cliffs around here tend to be pines  .
As far as redundency goes, I forgot to mention, sometimes I'll place a few pieces near the edge of the cliff and equalize them with the rope.
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stymingersfink
Feb 20, 2007, 11:36 PM
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sounds reasonable. I'll usually use a clove hitch at the tree with enough slack to reach the edge, then clove myself between my tie-in point and the tree at the "just-right" distance. This way I can adjust my position at the near clove if I find that something's not quite comfortable, and when finished everything is easy enough to break down if it's been weighted. Use key-lock biners for the cloves, as they are much easier to fish out of the hitch than the traditional notch-nose biner.
YMMV
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dingus
Feb 21, 2007, 12:15 AM
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Here's one way to do it
DMT
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moof
Feb 22, 2007, 1:34 AM
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Depends on the tree, but I often end up just walking around the tree, walking back to the edge, then I'll clove hitch in a locker into my strand, and clip that into a figure 8 on a bight on the other strand. I then belay off my harness, clipping the belay biner into the belay loop AND my tie in loop. I like it because it takes only one biner.
It's lousy if my partner gets hosed and I have to escape the belay, but for the cragging I do, that isn't a likelyhood.
On some other routes were the tree is not easy to get around due to bushes and branches I'll sling it with my cordelette, tight a figure 8 and clip in with a clove hitch and a couple lockers with enough slack to get back to the edge.
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2007, 2:59 AM
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Easy. Sling the tree as pro. Clip the sling with a locking biner or two with the rope running to it. Walk back to edge, and choose a stance. Clove hitch the rope from the tree to a locker on your belay loop. Adjust as necessary.
And yeah, tie an overhand on a bight in the line, and belay off that.
GO
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joeforte
Feb 22, 2007, 3:16 AM
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That way makes it harder to escape the belay, which is why I clip the rope to the slings with the hard knot (fig8). Then my side of the knot is isolated from the seconds.
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2007, 3:33 AM
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joeforte wrote: That way makes it harder to escape the belay, which is why I clip the rope to the slings with the hard knot (fig8). Then my side of the knot is isolated from the seconds.
Not much. Mule off the belay device, clip the biner on your harness to the belay biner, untie, and you're out. Of course, I'd like to backup the mule with, say a friction hitch on the live strand, but that applies equally to your scenario or mine. Anyway, you get the idea.
GO
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joeforte
Feb 22, 2007, 3:38 AM
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If the second is weighting the rope, wouldn't the biner on your harness, which is completing the loop of rope, be under load making it hard to unclip and reclip?
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2007, 4:02 AM
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1 - Mule off the climber to free up your hands.
2 - Put a friction knot on the line going down to the climber - attach to the line coming down from the tree. This will hold the climber for now, and serve as a backup to the mule once you're out of the system.
3 - Unweight your harness, weighting friction knot.
4 - Clip the biner on your harness to the belay biner.
Of course, if you need to be super quick and dirty, and want to skip the friction knot backup, after you've muled off the belay device, just take a 1/2 step forward, and the belay biner will come down, while your attachment biner goes up. Once the two are close enough, just clip the two together with a quickdraw, a locking biner, or whatever. Continue to move up until this connection takes the weight, and your harness will be out of the system.
By the way - this is serious shit. If you try this and you, your parter, and your partner's goldfish all die - don't blame me, you're responsible for your own choices. Be super-careful with rescue stuff, it's easy to go from bad to worse.
GO
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joeforte
Feb 22, 2007, 4:22 AM
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No that sounds legit man, and thats a pretty trick setup. I love learning about ALL of the possibilities, so I have more options in the field. 2nd year leading trad. I'm finally smooth enough to do a few multipitch climbs in a day at the gunks, and I think most of that is just getting faster at belay setups. Thanks for the input.
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2007, 2:43 PM
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Using the clove hitch at the harness is *much* quicker, because if you get the length wrong, you don't have to go all the way back up to the tree to re-set it.
GO
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phillygoat
Feb 22, 2007, 6:22 PM
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cracklover wrote: Easy. Sling the tree as pro. Clip the sling with a locking biner or two with the rope running to it. Walk back to edge, and choose a stance. Clove hitch the rope from the tree to a locker on your belay loop. Adjust as necessary. And yeah, tie an overhand on a bight in the line, and belay off that. GO
Ditto- except I prefer belaying off of an alpine butterfly.
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112
Feb 22, 2007, 7:41 PM
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cracklover wrote: Clove hitch the rope from the tree to a locker on your belay loop. Adjust as necessary.
Just to clarify, do you mean both strands of the rope coming from the tree such that your tie in knot is now isolated?
If not, I am not sure when you isolated your tie in knot prior to untying from your harness.
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cracklover
Feb 22, 2007, 8:13 PM
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112 wrote: cracklover wrote: Clove hitch the rope from the tree to a locker on your belay loop. Adjust as necessary. Just to clarify, do you mean both strands of the rope coming from the tree such that your tie in knot is now isolated?
Here's a quick and dirty pic. Hope this helps. I've removed the climber and harness from the pic for clarity.
GO
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crotch
Feb 22, 2007, 8:27 PM
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If it's the top of the climb and I'll be untying anyway
1) untie from the rope
2) tie a bowline around the tree or sling the tree and clip the end of the rope into the slings
3) tie a butterfly knot closer to the edge to use as a powerpoint
4) clip myself into the powerpoint
5) belay 2nd off of or through the powerpoint
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112
Feb 22, 2007, 9:44 PM
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cracklover wrote: Hope this helps.
Yep.
What I did not visualize before was the "knot on bite of rope clipped to belay device".
Thanks.
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reno
Feb 23, 2007, 5:07 AM
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From leader's harness:
To tree, secured to tree via two lockers, two slings, and a figure 8 on a bight.
From tree, half way back to leader, tie an alpine butterfly.
Redirect rope through that Alpine Butterfly and a biner, belay off harness.
Make sense? I could draw a (bad) sketch in paint to clarify, if it'll help.
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joeforte
Feb 23, 2007, 6:07 AM
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Yuk, thats gonna pull you horizontally should they fall, and that would be a tricky belay to escape. Why not belay off the the alpine butterfly on the rope?
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reno
Feb 23, 2007, 2:45 PM
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joeforte wrote: Yuk, thats gonna pull you horizontally should they fall, and that would be a tricky belay to escape. Why not belay off the the alpine butterfly on the rope?
1. It's not much of horizontal pull. Bulk of the force goes to the carabiner on the AB knot.
2. It is a bit tricky to escape, that's true.
3. I guess I never thought of it.... the AB knot is back from the edge, and I, the belayer, am close to the edge so I can see my second. This gives me space to work.... should I bring the AB knot closer and belay directly off that, I'd have to extend it closer to the edge. Not that it can't be done, but....
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cracklover
Feb 23, 2007, 3:14 PM
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Actually, my picture above is only accurate when I use my TRE, which autolocks kind of like a reverso. If I was using an ATC, I'd belay off my harness and redirect through that knot in the bight just like Reno.
GO
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joeforte
Feb 23, 2007, 3:29 PM
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Yeah, in order to belay right off the knot, I'd use an auto-locking device. I use a cinch or a reverso. I don't think it would be necessary to bring it closer to the edge in this case.
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reno
Feb 23, 2007, 4:07 PM
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joeforte wrote: I don't think it would be necessary to bring it closer to the edge in this case.
I guess you're right, in that it's not necessary to bring it close to the edge. It sure is nice to be able to see the second climber, though. Also eliminates rope rubbing on any edge, should that be an issue.
But you're right.... it's not an absolute requirement.
(This post was edited by reno on Feb 24, 2007, 2:18 AM)
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