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crazyaboutclimbing500
Apr 29, 2007, 7:12 AM
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So I did a search and could not find anything relavent.. How strong is the 000 C3? Its rated for 5kn (if placed correctly). But what kind of fall can that take? Is there any reason to believe that piece will hold as you're working the crux section of your route? Or is it more "psyco pro" as some have called it..? Just some thoughts...
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a.a.
Apr 29, 2007, 7:29 AM
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Sounds like an aid climbing piece to me.
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cosmin
Apr 29, 2007, 8:19 AM
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For a piece of pro (any piece in the chain) in order to be safely used as such when trad/sport climbing it has to bear a minimum of 7kN rating. This is the minimum. Anything below that is to be considered body-weight only and used as such only for direct aid. Now, people fall on all sorts of gear and all sorts of placements - bomber pieces have broken and manky pins have held. But the rule am working with is the one above. Caveat - I do not have an engineering background and my only qualification to support the statement above is my climbing experience. Always follow the instructions that come with the gear you purchase. In the case of C3s is the accompanying booklet; if you don't have one you can download it from http://www.bdel.com C
(This post was edited by cosmin on Apr 29, 2007, 8:22 AM)
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vegastradguy
Apr 29, 2007, 2:46 PM
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Have you seen the 000 C3? Its probably stronger than the rated 5kn, in good rock, in a perfect placement. Probably. That said, I wouldnt count on it for my pro during the crux- if and when i carry that piece, its only for peace of mind, never for actual pro.
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billcoe_
Apr 29, 2007, 3:05 PM
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crazyaboutclimbing500 wrote: So I did a search and could not find anything relavent.. How strong is the 000 C3? Its rated for 5kn (if placed correctly). But what kind of fall can that take? Is there any reason to believe that piece will hold as you're working the crux section of your route? Or is it more "psyco pro" as some have called it..? Just some thoughts... These guys have nailed the answer. Let me add that rock and Ice did some tests not too long ago which showed that a toprope fall could generate 1300 lbs. The strength rating of that piece is less than that. That should be a starting place for you. You might consider BAllnuts if you are free climbing and want something which will cam into a parellel crack. At 8kn strength, it's signifigantly stronger than the c3. It's also true that regular wired nuts would be a hell of a lot lighter to carry, you can back em up by like dropping 3 in a row in on those scary leads, cheaper too. From the trango site: " BallNutz™ are thin crack protection at its finest. Using a sliding ball/ramp concept, BallNutz™ will protect parallel sided cracks, flares, pin scars and bombays from 3mm to 16mm. The three smallest sizes have a 2:1 expansion range, resulting in unmatched security in chossy rock or expanding flakes. The #4 and #5 sizes will make you wonder why you ever used tiny cams. While these units are excellent for clean aid (they were even used for the first clean ascent of the Shield), they’re also terrific for protecting free climbs. BallNutz 2 4.5 - 9 .18 - .35 39.0 1.4 8 Red BallNutz 3 6 - 12 .24 - .47 48.0 1.7 8 Gold BallNutz 4 9 - 13 .35 - .51 61.0 2.2 8 Green BallNutz 5 11 - 15 .43 - .59 71.0 2.5 8 Purple Because of the stiff cable, we recommend using a quick draw whenever BallNutz™ are used to protect free climbing"
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cosmin
Apr 29, 2007, 3:09 PM
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OK - Let's simplify the research.... Here is the actual table of Camalots (C3s and C4s) as provided by BD. http://www.bdel.com/...l/c3_detail.php#tech As you will notice 000 is rated 4kN and has a little star next to it which tells us to look at the bottom of the table where BD explicitly states: for use as direct aid only. Since this piece is the only in the whole set with this specification I assume that 00 to 6, that is all the others, are safe as pro - and most likely they are. For my part i would feel comfortable taking a whipper only on C3 0 which is rated at 7kN and i would feel comfident on 000 and 00 as direct aid only. -------- edited to fix link
(This post was edited by cosmin on Apr 29, 2007, 3:27 PM)
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alexmac
Apr 29, 2007, 3:10 PM
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crazyaboutclimbing500 wrote: So I did a search and could not find anything relavent.. How strong is the 000 C3? Its rated for 5kn (if placed correctly). But what kind of fall can that take? Is there any reason to believe that piece will hold as you're working the crux section of your route? Or is it more "psyco pro" as some have called it..? Just some thoughts... I have had bad experience placing a C3 in limestone as an aid piece, too lazy to find my orginal post with search. I think the suggestion of ball nuts is a good one, and the 7KN rule a good suggestion as well.
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cosmin
Apr 29, 2007, 3:39 PM
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I was typing my second reply when the other guys posted theirs. I just want to secodn the suggestion of using ballnuts. On my rack i have nos 1 to 3 (3 sets) and a double set of C3s. The ballnuts fit greatly into thinner cracks than the c3s/however in small poket-like cracks the c3s rule - i use them both happily. So far i took falls while freeclimbing only on the red ballnut and held well - though a royal pain in the arse to remove after. if i feel like a fall is in order at ssome point and i can fit only c3 000 or c3 00 i put two or three pieces (sizes overlap enough) and equalise them with a sling, then.... i don' t fall. C ---- edited once for typos
(This post was edited by cosmin on Apr 29, 2007, 3:40 PM)
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dynamo_
Apr 30, 2007, 2:34 AM
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Registered: Apr 13, 2005
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crazyaboutclimbing500 wrote: So I did a search and could not find anything relavent.. How strong is the 000 C3? Its rated for 5kn (if placed correctly). But what kind of fall can that take? Is there any reason to believe that piece will hold as you're working the crux section of your route? Or is it more "psyco pro" as some have called it..? Just some thoughts... Any piece is better than no piece.
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