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bitchslabbin
May 10, 2007, 6:31 PM
Post #26 of 42
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Im supper stuborn, if I don't want to do something even if it seems very minor to some, if I have decided I don't want to do it, then i won't I will sit on the side of that cliff all day, it doesn't matter to me. I've had climbing partners try and convince me to do something by theartening to leave me stranded hundreds of feet up, never works give me a little ledge and I can plant my ass on it for hours. But on the other hand, sometimes i will find reason in there argument and usually it's because secretly I want to do it, but i know I'm just scared. It's a fine line.
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climbinggirl33
Jun 17, 2007, 7:30 PM
Post #27 of 42
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I think being pushed feels very different after a bad accident than it does when you are simply on working to move up a grade or into a new technique. What normally wouldn't phase me at all is much harder to take when the battle is in your head.
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sherrilewis
Jun 24, 2007, 6:36 PM
Post #28 of 42
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I've got a muscular build and from the day I started climbing I've gotten comments along the lines of "with those muscles you should be able to do this or that." Even though they may mean well, I do not find it encouraging.
Interestingly, female partners never say this. The guys ALWAYS do.
Guess it goes back to what previous posters have pointed about the differences in the ways girls and guys motivate each other/themselves.
I like to push myself hard, and have often felt empowered by sincere acknowledgment of a good effort, but when you're at your limit(physically or mentally) it can be a fine line between feeling encouraged to reach that limit on your own terms or feeling pushed into something your not ready for.
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dingus
Jun 26, 2007, 4:27 PM
Post #29 of 42
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Hey I'm glad I stumbled into this thread.
rrrAdam made my central point for me so no need to elaborate there.
Temperments differ too. I simply cannot 'guy-push' my wife or my eldest daughter. They do what some of the posters claim to do in this thread - give up.
Now of course to a guy, giving up in the face of a 'guy-push' is like tossing gas on a fire.
If it is incumbant on us guys to understand this women anti-guy-push thing then the other is equally true - if you want to climb with men then you'd best learn how men are.
My youngest will kick allayall's ass. When I push her, the little fists of fury get busy. She's got 5.13 written all over her haha.
DMT
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dingus
Jun 26, 2007, 4:30 PM
Post #30 of 42
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dingus wrote: My youngest will kick allayall's ass. When I push her, the little fists of fury get busy. She's got 5.13 written all over her haha. DMT
Just to clarify... Kaity doesn't like to be pushed either. Its just her reaction is slightly different than her sistahs. She will tell me to stfu in a heart beat, anger instead of tears. But suggest she come down?
You may as well suggest she amputate her left leg witha dull pocketknife.
She's got 5.13 written all over her. HER WAY.
DMT
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clee03m
Jun 27, 2007, 1:06 AM
Post #31 of 42
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sherrilewis wrote: I've gotten comments along the lines of "with those muscles you should be able to do this or that."
What is up with people reacting to arms?! My dad, husband, mom and even her friend! I get so much crap about my arms. I have never gotten that from partners, but if I ever did, my reaction would be something along the line of,
"With those scrawny arms, I'm surprised you can get your ass up any wall"
or
"Put some clothes on; you are hurting my eyes"
I don't think that the arm comment is suppose to be well intended pushing.
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sherrilewis
Jun 27, 2007, 4:09 AM
Post #32 of 42
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clee03m wrote: sherrilewis wrote: I've gotten comments along the lines of "with those muscles you should be able to do this or that." What is up with people reacting to arms?! My dad, husband, mom and even her friend! I get so much crap about my arms. I have never gotten that from partners, but if I ever did, my reaction would be something along the line of, "With those scrawny arms, I'm surprised you can get your ass up any wall" or "Put some clothes on; you are hurting my eyes" I don't think that the arm comment is suppose to be well intended pushing.
Great retorts, I'll have to remember those!
And, yeah, it is a little hard to figure out where people are coming from with that line of comments. Maybe just not used to seeing strong girls.
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clausti
Jun 30, 2007, 4:33 PM
Post #33 of 42
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ppl are weird about girls' arms. what is with being asked to flex???
anyway, with regards to being pushed, something i have started to explore recently, with good results, is going out in a group where i am the strongest climber.
this might seem retardedly obvious, and/or self centered, but when i'm out with my boyfriend, or patently stronger climbers, and my lead head is freaking out, no amount of coaxing or pushing on their part is going to get me to push myself. it doesnt matter if i dont finish the route because someone will rescue me.
on the other hand, if i am the strongest climber in the group, even if we dont get on anything harder than 5.10 all day, the fact that i am not going to get rescued helps to re-induce the "just climb" mentality, by which i mean to quit worring about improbably consequences. judge the fall potential once, then move on. bonus points if i'm on a route where nobody else can finish it on lead.
another thing that's been working well for me is to get on routes that are moderate for me, even if its a grade i've been scaring myself on, and finish it. again, seems obvious, but, for me, even if i hang on every bolt, even if i freak out every time i look up, and it takes forever, finishing the route means a lot to me, and i dont come down feeling like a failure like i do when i back off. NOTE: this does not apply to routes with ledges, ect, where the falls are actually highly consequential. we're talking vert/overhanging/slab-with-no-ledges.
as far as taking practice falls go, it doesnt work for me, personally. period. it is a thousand times scarier to consiously let go then to just fall climbing, and that experiance of fear doesnt help me at all.
so, my advice in summary- ditch your stronger regular partner for a few sessions and climb with some weaker ppl. this will force you to not rely on resuce. also, finish the climb (on lead), no matter how many hangs it takes. this gives you an acomplishment to take home, and breaks a string of "failures" if you feel like backing off of a climb is shameful.
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clmbrdancer
Jun 30, 2007, 6:09 PM
Post #34 of 42
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dingus wrote: Hey I'm glad I stumbled into this thread.
So if we have a 'guy-push,' what entains a 'woman push?"
Friends seem to forget that people react differently to different methods of being pushed and need to be willing to change their method of 'push.' Assuming they are intending to help their friend by pushing them.
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schveety
Jul 3, 2007, 5:02 PM
Post #35 of 42
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I know this thread was started some time ago, but I've finally got back into regularily checking the forums and this thread caught my attention.
I climb almost exclusively with my fiance and what happens with me is he'll get on a climb and lead it and be like, "I think you'll really like this one you should lead it." or he'll ask if I want to lead a pitch in a multi-pitch that's within my limit. For whatever reason, these words get my goat almost everytime - sometimes not if I'm more relaxed. And it's because I feel like he's telling me what I want to climb and what I should climb. Instead of me looking in the guidebook and picking a climb I really like or asking if I can lead the next pitch - I feel like he's telling me what to do - and that makes me stubborn and pissed off.
I don't mind if he backs down from a climb and I have to step up and finish it - though this doesn't happen often as he usually climbs stronger than me (except on slabs!!) - but when he tells me what I want to climb or I feel he's telling me - I get pissed - even though he'd probably do the same things with his guy friends.
I think the main thing is definitely to communicate to your husband how you feel and let him know to back off and that you'll let him know when you're ready...
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unabonger
Jul 24, 2007, 4:04 AM
Post #36 of 42
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schveety wrote: I know this thread was started some time ago, but I've finally got back into regularily checking the forums and this thread caught my attention. I climb almost exclusively with my fiance and what happens with me is he'll get on a climb and lead it and be like, "I think you'll really like this one you should lead it." .......Instead of me looking in the guidebook and picking a climb I really like or asking if I can lead the next pitch - I feel like he's telling me what to do - and that makes me stubborn and pissed off.... .....but when he tells me what I want to climb or I feel he's telling me - I get pissed - even though he'd probably do the same things with his guy friends.
Huh. So rather than simply take his recommendation into consideration and either accept it or discard it, you get pissed at him for offering some information. Either he's being a pushy jerk, or you're being a highly sensitive shrew.
If he's a pushy jerk, I suggest rethinking the whole fiance thing. If you're being a sensitive shrew, I suggest you take a deep breath and learn not to take it personally, just move on and make your decision.
A nice quality in a respected partner is that they have a keen ability to judge for themselves what they want to do, when they want to do it, why they want to do it, and they are willing to listen to counsel and give it the appropriate weight. Seeing that quality in someone makes me trust them more.
All the best,
The DiddlyDiveyDoBonger
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dalguard
Jul 24, 2007, 4:03 PM
Post #37 of 42
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I've been in the situation she's describing and it definitely wears on you after a while. Having someone constantly telling you what you should be capable of doing makes you feel like you're always playing catch-up to someone else's expectation.
My BF never meant any harm and I never took it that way, but once I was out of that situation and making my own decisions about what to lead my climbing took off.
Try climbing with other people, especially people who are less experienced or lead less hard. It's great for your lead head and your independence and if you and the fiance climb separately, you'll have good stories to tell each other at the end of the day.
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schveety
Jul 25, 2007, 2:54 AM
Post #38 of 42
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dalguard - it seems you definitely got the jist of my post and understood the underlying psychology of feeling as if you're constantly trying to meet someone's expectations of yourself
unabonger - you're way off (at least way off in interpreting what I meant but my post) - I'm thinking you can't be a female, but who knows, we all tick differently. all I'm saying is that you misunderstood my post and my reactions to being pushed. I'm not a pyscho-sensitive shrew-biatch (and he's not a pushy man), there are just different personality types and hence different ways of feeling and reacting to someone pushing you every weekend. If it was a one time thing, I would brush it off, but when it's constant it can get to anyone. He knows he does it now and I've talked to him about letting me make my own decisions, instead of always suggesting that I should try or would like something. We all have to be free to make our own decisions without someone always commenting first. Now I get to say, hey, can I lead this pitch (when I feel like leading the pitch) - and he doesn't ask me when I don't ask because he knows I don't want it. And I'm certainly not going to let climbing be the be all and end all of my relationship - hardly - every couple rubs each other the wrong way once in a while and we're no different.... (that said - trust me that if he was telling me I was no good and threatening to give me penalty slack for being a pussy - he never would have made it to the fiance stage - mainly because he would probably exhibit this behavior in other areas of his life).
Love,
Schveety V
(This post was edited by schveety on Jul 25, 2007, 3:09 AM)
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clausti
Jul 25, 2007, 10:01 PM
Post #39 of 42
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unabonger wrote: schveety wrote: I know this thread was started some time ago, but I've finally got back into regularily checking the forums and this thread caught my attention. I climb almost exclusively with my fiance and what happens with me is he'll get on a climb and lead it and be like, "I think you'll really like this one you should lead it." .......Instead of me looking in the guidebook and picking a climb I really like or asking if I can lead the next pitch - I feel like he's telling me what to do - and that makes me stubborn and pissed off.... .....but when he tells me what I want to climb or I feel he's telling me - I get pissed - even though he'd probably do the same things with his guy friends. Huh. So rather than simply take his recommendation into consideration and either accept it or discard it, you get pissed at him for offering some information. Either he's being a pushy jerk, or you're being a highly sensitive shrew. ...
Those aren't the only outcomes. Some guys are only pushy as "activity" partners (climbing, mntn biking) and not about decision that actually matter. That being said...
If does that to her to the extent such that, yes, they're swinging leads, but its 1. him decide a pitch to lead for himself 2. him decide a pitch for her to lead 3. him decide a pitch to lead for himself 4. him decide a pitch for her to lead... they are not really climbing partners. he is using her as his climbing bitch. and if she were to, god forbid, object to this, she is a shrew.
come on, 'bonger, you know better than the stupid assumptions you made in the above post.
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schveety
Jul 26, 2007, 2:25 AM
Post #40 of 42
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Disclaimer: I am not stating that anyone on this site has made this assumption!
That said, allow me to clear some things up:
1. I am nobody's climbing biatch,
2. I am not crag arm candy, and
3. I don't get dragged to the crag by my fiance
against my will
I really do enjoy climbing with my fiance, I think we mesh well together as partners both in life and climbing - of course we get on each other's nerves sometimes, but all partners do. He is in fact the stronger climber and often picks the climbs that we do - however, I usually enjoy the climbs he chooses and look through the guidebook with him to choose one. Sometimes I see pictures on mountainproject and I email him right away and fire him up about a climb we should try cause it looks awesome. I also choose my own climbs and he fully supports me, just as I support his choices. He encourages me to lead because he knows I am strong - I just have to also know myself that I am strong - mainly mentally - and that is something I am working on.
I am also my own climbing woman separate from him. In fact, I just took one of our mutual guy friends up the Petit Grepon a couple of weekends ago. He had really wanted to climb it, but was unsure of the approach, descent, and route, so I agreed to climb it with him since I had been on it before. I swapped leads with him and it was a great day - I didn't get him lost, etc, etc, etc - although I think he questioned my abilities before we started out - because I was female! I can tie my own knots, I'm pretty sure I can rescue myself, I can figure out routes, and blah, blah, blah. Of course I am still learning, but it's a never-ending learning process.
Anyway, long winded, I just wanted to clear up that my fiance is not an a-hole, just in case anyone meets him at the crag. And I ain't nobody's biznatch or climbing slave!!!!
Ranting over, stepping off the soap box...
All my love to all the climbing homies out there
Cheers,
Schveety V
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borealchick
Jul 28, 2007, 8:10 PM
Post #41 of 42
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My bf is the only climbing partner I 've ever had. (I started climbing last Oct. ) I definitely have learned form him- but a lot on my own too. He pushes me every time we go- and I mean every time...he intends well, but he goes too far sometimes...his opinion is that I should be able to ignore him because I have to be more mentally fit to climb and I should just ignore him. I tell him it's great to push each other but too much is too much it just makes me not want to climb with him anymore. We are great mountaineer partners and have been for a while..but I feel like he's only pushing me every time because I am his girlfriend so he has a right- I KNOW he wouldn't do that to other partners. I love pushing myself and I do love being pushed by others but something has got to give here! |
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dingus
Jul 30, 2007, 3:45 PM
Post #42 of 42
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dingus wrote: dingus wrote: My youngest will kick allayall's ass. When I push her, the little fists of fury get busy. She's got 5.13 written all over her haha. DMT Just to clarify... Kaity doesn't like to be pushed either. Its just her reaction is slightly different than her sistahs. She will tell me to stfu in a heart beat, anger instead of tears. But suggest she come down? You may as well suggest she amputate her left leg witha dull pocketknife. She's got 5.13 written all over her. HER WAY. DMT
So Kaity and I went to Bucks Bar last week after work and set a top rope on Dinkum.
She had a fair time (haha) on her first lap, pausing to work out an OW section.
I did a lap and there was time for one more, so she got on it again.
She paused again at the OW part, ineffectually pawing at the wydeness with her feet.
This is exactly the situation where my advice becomes increasingly irritating to her, and any admonishments to hurry are likely to provoke an outburst.
But evening was fast coming on and this is West Nile Virus country and by god I was getting eaten alive by skeeters!
Slap! Slap! Slap!
In a quiet voice, calm and polite, I said,
"Kaity, I'm getting eaten alive down here honey. I don't mean to rush you, but if you don't mind could you either climb to the top or lower off? We need to go."
"OK!" Was the sunny reply. About 60 seconds later I was lowering her from the anchors. We didn't say much more about it but later we were 'there we were-ing' with her mom and she says,
"Yeah, Pop finally figured out how to get me to climb faster."
"Oh?" Her Mom questioned in amusement.
"Yup." She declared. "He asked me nicely."
There ya go.
DMT
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