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edmontonalta
Aug 12, 2007, 6:01 AM
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Im not a climber but I have to get down this 20 foot "cliff". It seems to be an old side waterfall(reentrant?) that feeds into a larger waterfall. There is one big boulder wedged into the old waterfall. that is what I stand on at the top. about 10 ft down there is another boulder wedged in. its 20 ft straight down to bottom. There is no way Im going to lean back and repell at this point because I have no experience and the munter hitch is pretty dodgy. I have a prusik but it slipped one time when I was testing it.
I was thinking of getting some marine rope and tie a bunch of knots in it and climb down that rope while Im attached to 8mm climbing rope.
I have not slept in two weeks because Im am so scared of heights. 20 feet scares the shit out of me.
Im pretty sure I could easily climb the thing (if i started from bottom)but when I look down from top of heights I am terrified.
I tried dangling my camera down and taking some video of the area below but lost camera. The bugs are merciless and it takes 3 hrs of bushwacking to get to the area.
I have 50 meters 10mm rope but it is too heavy to carry unless I cut it in half.
(I have good trees for anchors)
(This post was edited by edmontonalta on Aug 12, 2007, 6:05 AM)
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hiyapokey
Aug 12, 2007, 6:37 AM
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On page 165 of the fourth edition of John Longs "How to Rock Climb" there is a description on how to rappel. Buy this book (or get it at the dang library) so you have something to reference. The book also has other good information for other questions you might have. To answer your question: I think 8mm rope is too small for your purpose. It will slip too quickly through the belay device you choose. I wouldn't use the munter. It is easy for someone inexperiened to tie it incorrectly. Get two long strands of 1 inch webbing a rap ring 10.5mm to 11mm static CLIMBING rope and a belay device like a stitch plate figure 8 or ATC. Again I will warn you to get the book and proper instruction from someone who knows what they are doing. Good luck. If you find Montezuma's treasure remember that I'm the only one who answers your questions seriously.
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edmontonalta
Aug 12, 2007, 6:59 AM
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thanks for the fast answer. What would the long strands of webbing be for? I guess that would be for the two anchors? You are right the 8mm munter hitch makes a lousy repell system. for some reason , I really am drawn to the idea of a rope with knots every few feet. Repelling is so dangerous if not done perfectly right.
Someone dropped a backpack down the falls this winter. I have a pretty good idea where it is. I have OCD so have to find it.
I think I will have to cut my 10mm rope in half. 50 meters just gets tangled anyway, not like id ever do a 50 meter repell.
as far as munter hitch, i just keep trying until it looks right. one of the reasons i didnt lean back over 20 ft cliff.
(This post was edited by edmontonalta on Aug 12, 2007, 7:01 AM)
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greenketch
Aug 12, 2007, 8:34 AM
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Yes, the webbing is for the anchor. As to the rope I would say learn to handle it. There is no reason aside from user error for a 50m to get tangled. Beside that there is several reasons that one would want a full rope and working past the knot that you will end up with is well past your skill level.
As to the knots in a rope idea. I would strongly suggest against it. your hands will get tired and it is no where near as secure as you seem to think. Then where would you be.
Once again I suggest that you contact a real person for some real help and demonstration. There are many things (like using a dry treated rope for wet conditions) that should be considered. With proper instruction heights are not usually too bad. But with your skill set your fear is very well founded.
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pro_alien
Aug 12, 2007, 12:06 PM
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Forget about the knots, get an ATC or similar to control your descent. An 8 mm climbing (not marine) rope should be ok. For rapping / ascending, static rope may be more convenient. How will you get back up ?
Try everything off a tree or building first...
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limeydave
Aug 12, 2007, 12:15 PM
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edmontonalta wrote: Im not a climber but I have to get down this 20 foot "cliff". It seems to be an old side waterfall(reentrant?) that feeds into a larger waterfall. There is one big boulder wedged into the old waterfall. that is what I stand on at the top. about 10 ft down there is another boulder wedged in. its 20 ft straight down to bottom. There is no way Im going to lean back and repell at this point because I have no experience and the munter hitch is pretty dodgy. I have a prusik but it slipped one time when I was testing it. I was thinking of getting some marine rope and tie a bunch of knots in it and climb down that rope while Im attached to 8mm climbing rope. I have not slept in two weeks because Im am so scared of heights. 20 feet scares the shit out of me. Im pretty sure I could easily climb the thing (if i started from bottom)but when I look down from top of heights I am terrified. I tried dangling my camera down and taking some video of the area below but lost camera. The bugs are merciless and it takes 3 hrs of bushwacking to get to the area. I have 50 meters 10mm rope but it is too heavy to carry unless I cut it in half. (I have good trees for anchors)
How are you going to get back up??
Your exit route might be your best route in too...
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vtrescuekid
Aug 12, 2007, 12:32 PM
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If you're spending 3hrs just to get to it and you're scared of heights and don't know how to rappell, then why not just spend a little more time bushwhacking to go around the cliff to get the bag?Unless you're in the Grand Canyon or something similar you can walk around to get where you need to go.
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billcoe_
Aug 12, 2007, 2:39 PM
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To add what Moose Droppings said: I suppose anything is an upgrade to your mothers clothesline.
Be careful when you rapple, cause if you get stuck, you will die and the crows will pic at your body.
Wait, we already discussed that.
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billcoe_
Aug 12, 2007, 2:50 PM
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This really happens: heres whats left.
This guy had an 8mm rope too.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Aug 12, 2007, 2:52 PM)
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dynoho
Aug 12, 2007, 5:35 PM
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edmontonalta wrote: Im not a climber but I have to get down this 20 foot "cliff".
Why don't you ask Majidiot? That pathetic tool thinks he knows everything.
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edmontonalta
Aug 12, 2007, 7:47 PM
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My main problem with the 50 meters of 10mm rope is that it is heavy.
My proposed entry point to falls appears to be the safest. The sides of waterfall are steep and the waterfall itself of course is steep.
Once Im down in the falls I am sort of in a trap. Thanks for alerting me to this danger.
to get out, I plan to jug on my prusik. I think i will definitey get some marine rope with knots for backup for ascent.
Thanks for the help, guys.
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vtrescuekid
Aug 12, 2007, 7:58 PM
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You could try looking for some end cuts of rope from gearexpress.com or rocknrescue.com They both sell end pieces of rope in random lengths. Rocknrescue might be a better bet though because they'll have static rope which is much better to rappell on. Another thing to consider in helping get yourself up the rope would be getting some Petzl Tibloc's. They're a poor man's emergency ascender but if you're only going 20' could work well and they're much cheaper than regular ascenders and I'm betting safer than prusik's that you're not that familiar with.
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edmontonalta
Aug 12, 2007, 8:03 PM
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thanks. i will look into Petzl Tibloc's and end cuts.
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vtrescuekid
Aug 12, 2007, 8:03 PM
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Yea, I just checked. Go to www.rocknrescue.com and go to the Specials on the left side and find the rope shorts. You can get a 40' piece of 3/8" (10mm) Sterling static rope for $22. This would work perfectly for you providing the cliff is actually only 20'. It wouldn't weigh much and would be a hell of alot safer than whatever 8mm rope you were talking about using.
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greenketch
Aug 12, 2007, 8:13 PM
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Freind Edmont, There is a lot of good advice goin your way. As well a lot of good knowledge out there. Did you ever consider that maybe there is a reason that of the climbers and other roped access types out there the knoted rope idea is almost never seen and especially in this application. Also Marine rope is not the answer and is seldom used in this application.
It must be really nice to know that you know way more than 95% of the rest of the experienced folk.
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vtrescuekid
Aug 12, 2007, 8:29 PM
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I would say use ascenders but they're costly so at the bare minimum try out the Petzl Tibloc's. You'd need two of them as well as two locking biners but it would be better than trying to climb a rope with prusiks.
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codhands
Aug 12, 2007, 11:14 PM
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You are on your own.
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codhands
Aug 12, 2007, 11:16 PM
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Aha!!! I think I get it!!!! With all these cloak and daggery posts you've been making. You have found the secret location of D.B. Coopers loot!!! You sly dog you!
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rocknice2
Aug 12, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Why don't you just go to the local gym or climbing store and find someone knowledgeable. Pay them some chee$e to help you get your pack out. They'll have all the gear and most important skill.
WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO....
DON'T GO ALONE
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Julka7
Aug 13, 2007, 2:55 AM
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I know there is an answer to my question somewhere among these couple of hundred posts and I just didn't happen to come across it ... but what exactly are you doing and why?
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billcoe_
Aug 13, 2007, 3:04 AM
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If you bring a bar of soap with you as you bolt this waterfall extravaganza near Seattle, then you can multi task and return home clean and refreshed: ready for work.
Furthermore, you will be saving the planet by not wasting the water that would otherwise just run to the sea unmolested.
I recommend Ivory, as I can tell that you have soft, sensitive skin from your posts.
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edmontonalta
Aug 13, 2007, 3:17 AM
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Julka7 wrote: I know there is an answer to my question somewhere among these couple of hundred posts and I just didn't happen to come across it ... but what exactly are you doing and why?
Im trying to access a waterfall because something fell down there in the winter. In the winter, the waterfall is a snow shoot. a complicating factor is that Im terrified of heights. The waterfall is quite steep and the sides of the waterfall seem to be steep everywhere. the bush is thick so it is hard to see where the cliffs are. Im working alone which raises the risk level.
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billcoe_
Aug 13, 2007, 3:20 AM
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Fine, don't bring the soap. Just disregard my advice and go off alone and get yourself kilt.
Don't blame me if it goes badly.
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majid_sabet
Aug 13, 2007, 5:09 AM
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you could use 8.5 mm or larger dia if you are under 150 lbs . if you weight more that, then min 9 mm static rope should work. Use 8 plate for rapping with smaller dia ropes.
If you are going to use 40 feet of rope to do a 20 feet double rap and pull the rope when you reach the end , then you could use, 22 feet of 10 mm and 20 feet of 4 mm to pull .
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